Talk:FanFiction.Net adult content purge felt across fandom two weeks on
Journalist notes[edit]
Sites[edit]
FanFiction.Net[edit]
The following statement is available on FanFiction.Net's main page:
- June 4th 2012 -- Notices:
- Please note we would like to clarify the content policy we have in place since 2002. FanFiction.Net follows the Fiction Rating system ranging from Fiction K to Fiction M. Although Fiction Ratings goes up to Fiction MA, FanFiction.Net since 2002 has not allowed Fiction MA rated content which can contain adult/explicit content on the site. FanFiction.Net only accepts content in the Fiction K through Fiction M range. Fiction M can contain adult language, themes and suggestions. Detailed descriptions of physical interaction of sexual or violent nature is considered Fiction MA and has not been allowed on the site since 2002.
--LauraHale (talk) 03:37, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Background research for the site was done on http://fanhistory.com/wiki/FanFiction.Net, a site I ran for many years, and the Squidoo article cited in the Sidewinder section. --LauraHale (talk) 04:24, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/fanfiction.net has estimates. http://www.quantcast.com/fanfiction.net is not available. --LauraHale (talk) 05:20, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
"you failed to mention in your report that they removed the NC-17 rating fairly close to when they dropped the age limit to have an account from 18 to 13. Yes, they tried the pop up window asking if they were 17 for a bit, but apparently it didn't work out and had to cut out the category. " --LauraHale (talk) 06:15, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
The file above and http://ffdotnetrants.livejournal.com/140021.html show the purge levels. --LauraHale (talk) 07:56, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Archive of Our Own/Organisation for Transformative Works[edit]
Their Dreamwidth page can be found here.
The known issues page is there. about page is there. ---LauraHale (talk) 04:24, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
http://www.quantcast.com/archiveofourown.org is Quantcast data. This data is old and dates back to April. No current information. --LauraHale (talk) 04:41, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/archiveofourown.org has Alexa data. --LauraHale (talk) 05:20, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
502 errors and 17,000 comment:
--LauraHale (talk) 05:33, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
- Found it! The news is not easy to find. but did. They did post about load issues to their site. --LauraHale (talk) 05:39, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Reason for dreamwidth comment: The history of the archive was that it came OUT of the Dreamwdith community as several people involved in it created the archive. For a long time, this was one of their primary methods of engaging their user base. --LauraHale (talk) 05:34, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
http://archiveofourown.org/admin_posts/225 is emergency load information. --LauraHale (talk) 05:41, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Tumblr is awful for linking. :( The following is the text found on http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/fanfiction.net?before=1339594845 regarding the invite code:
alien-rz: FF.net's gone insane They’re going to delete M rated stories, from what I understand. They’ve got their reasons, and I do not agree with them. So now there’s a growth of other fanfiction sites created by fans where fanfiction can roam free? I heard of AO3 (ArchiveofOurOwn.org) which has gained thousands of members in just a few days! The speed’s slow there, but I guess it’ll steady with time. To register you’d need an “invite”, lest everyone on the whole internet registers at the same time, and the site would blow up. So I was put on the waiting list for my invite: You’ve been added to our queue! Yay! We estimate that you’ll receive an invitation around 2012-12-13. Goodie. Just around Christmas. That’s swell. Then there’s www.yourfanfiction.com where you can register at once. I don’t know much about this one. Now, both of these are in beta, so keep that in mind. Is there some site I’ve missed that’s good to know about? #ff.net #fanfiction #AO3 #yourfanfiction.com #fic #writing
MediaMiner.Org[edit]
Background research was done at http://fanhistory.com/wiki/MediaMiner.Org , a site I used to run. --LauraHale (talk) 04:24, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
http://www.quantcast.com/mediaminer.org and http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/mediaminer.org are the links to traffic information.--LauraHale (talk) 05:20, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
YourFanFiction.Com[edit]
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/yourfanfiction.com has some of the information including site age. From Tumblr:
thelovelylillies: New fanfiction site! Yourfanfiction.com I just discovered a new fanfiction site that is about 2 weeks old but already has many features, including the ability to have MA rated fanfiction. Songfics are allowed. It truly is your fanfiction, your way. It’s called YourFanfiction.com and it’s growing up just nicely for only starting up a few weeks ago. I believe it is the growing little alternative to Fanfiction.net considering how upset everyone it about the recent and continuing purging of fanfictions from said site. tsktsktsk Fanfiction.Net, when will you learn! Well I am now posting my fanfictions on both sites! Who’s with me?! #fanfiction.net #fan fiction #fanfiction
User confirmation from Tumblr:
bluelilacflame: PSA 2 of tonight Due to all the trouble we seem to be having with FFN.net at the minute, I’m transferring all my work to yourfanfiction . com, which will eventually become my primary source (because it’s good, and I’d have to wait ‘til Sept to get onto AO3 unless some kind soul is willing to send an invite my way. :) Anyway, I’m still trying to work it out, but yeah. :) Join the party! :D They allow MA, and the mods have explicitly said that they refuse to delete anything without prior notification, as FFN is doing, and basically doing everything right that FFN are doing wrong. In short. :D /end PSA2
This one user too:
konata-the-espeon: someone help pls okay on yourfanfiction.com how do you add multiple characters to a story? ;A; #yourfanfiction
This user uses too:
getwhatyouwantorjustgetold: Just so you know, there's a new Fanfiction Site that's been created because of all the mess at FFdotnet - it's wwwdotyourfanfictiondotcom and has all the usability of FFdotnet but without the unreliability. They even say on there that they won't just delete anyone's fics without telling them and, if they have to, they'll email the fic to the person so no-one just loses anything. Plus they have an MA rating :) Anonymous Ooh… considering FF.net have been a bt pissy, I’ve checked it and signed up. Will probably move over gradually and just post there instead… I’d much rather that than worry about things getting deleted :)
This post confirms it went down:
xxxfleur-delacourxxx: My New Fanfiction Accounts? Besides my two ff.net accounts (i.e. http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2216526/ and http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2113117/Wynde_Selwyn_Mellark) I’ve taken to keeping all my fanfiction stories on my blog (http://myfanfictionsite.blogspot.com/) and my original work on this blog (http://ana-staceswritings.blogspot.com/). But I’ve also been looking at other sites. I’m waiting for: AO3 to invite me (but that won’t happen until about 2012-12-23 (which is the Eve of Christmas Eve… and that’s a long time) Yourfanfiction.com to go back online so I can sign up…. I want to try out as many places as possible before deciding on a good site. Recommendations wanted! Nastya Wynde(: #fanfiction.net #fanfiction #yourfanfiction #Ao3 #blogger #XxX Fleur-Delacour XxX
Critics United[edit]
http://saveourfanfiction.tumblr.com/ is the Tumblr blog dedicated to combatting them. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/hannah-ellison/fanfiction-the-book-burning-that-was_b_1592689.html is the Huffington post that mentions them. http://feckless-muse.dreamwidth.org/6889.html eludes to this group, saying "that the people reporting these so called site violations are literally ganging up on the writers and leaving comments like the ones below en masse. The poor writers are spending hours (and in some cases months and years for ongoing fics) on their works only to be abused, bullied and then having their work deleted without notice. " http://quinnbastians.tumblr.com/post/24345794821/important-re-mass-deletion-of-stories-on is a post that blames them for the purge. http://biteymadlady58.livejournal.com/9226.html blames them in the comments. http://ffdotnetrants.livejournal.com/144727.html says "It's been suggested that part of the reason behind the purge were the mass-reports coming from a trollish community on FanFiction that felt they have the right to judge which stories do and do not belong on the site. Unfortunately, they are not alone. My Fatal Fanfiction story-a Fatal Frame parody revolving around the recent purge-was targeted by them. Apparently the short prologue with references to the characters, story, and setting of the game was enough for them to declare my story an original work. They have since demanded I change it or remove it, threatened me, they've reported my story, and they keep leaving those kind of reviews."
http://www.change.org/petitions/the-authors-of-fanfiction-net-stop-critics-united-from-cyber-bullying-our-fellow-authors-2 us a petition created about them. As of today, on the bottom, it said the following people signed:
Danny Kleemann (Peoria, IL) about 14 hours ago Brian George O'Connor (Chatham, NY) about 14 hours ago Tegan Chin (Arlington, TX) about 15 hours ago HOLLY Reichert (Euclid, OH) about 21 hours ago Claire Owen (Houston, TX) 1 day ago
Joanna Zhang (Charlotte, NC) 1 day ago Amber Keystone (Monroe, LA) 1 day ago Lily Hamilton (Charlotte, NC) 1 day ago Allison Law (Charlotte, NC) 1 day ago Erica Winchester (Clinton, MA) 1 day ago
--LauraHale (talk) 09:25, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Timothy Hall petition signing requires three instances of showing more. It says:
I am aware that there is a decent amount of deletions of entire stories and even accounts each day. I am also aware that sometimes this simply must be done, but allot of these occur unreasonable so. This is occurring in the communities, forums, stories, and even member profiles. True this policy has been in effect since 2002, but never truly enforced until now. It was never unleashed full swing until clarification was made as an update notice on June 4th, 2012. I do understand if you either support this matter or are indifferent toward it, but I do encourage you to think it over. I believe that the majority of the authors of this site are more than just writers of simple smut or meaningless violence with either being fueled by merely some form of mindless lust. On the contrary, this wonderful community is full of aspiring writers that create tasteful stories, and caring readers that provide authors with much needed feedback. FanFictionNet is the den of our unleashed imagination. It is sad that this is befalling such a great site that has been apart of our lives ever since we first found it on the web. The profiles are being deleted due to either content violations or inactivity, including the stories in connection with the profiles. Most of profile and story deletions are because of depicted content about adult or violent themes being detailed beyond its 'suggestion' even in the slightest manner. The main reason why this is occurring is due to website content being too "literaturely graphic". What if being too "literaturely graphic" is in the context as some would have it in terms of it being 'illicit actions'? Of coarse then, FanfictionNet's reasons are understandable. However, if not allowing FICTION MA rated content on FanFictionNet is merely for being "literaturely graphic" in the context as the term would suggest: "people reading on FanFictionNet seek this rating merely to fuel a form of mindless lust'. Then the reasons are rather asinine. In this day's age if people are so hellbent on viewing the graphic content of sexual and violent natures solely for lustful satisfaction, then there are more visually appealing means than reading a book or hearing a story. If this is all there is to FanficitonNet's case, then it is safe to assume people will look to visual stimuli (i.e. video games or pornography) instead of words to accomplish such, and not bother to read about it when they can view it instead. If the policy is conflicting with the people, then perhaps the policy is what is in need of change or even removal. It sure wasn't there before 2002. The Prohibition Act that happened in America wasn't so useful, and was later removed after a time. Perhaps the time has come for a change to happen and allow Fiction MA rated content to be featured on FanFictionNet within reason of certain restrictions. Otherwise, this poor excuse is unreasonable, and in fact highly insulting. The maintainers and users of this site make up this community. This is a community of a proud and virtual family at that. I would thing maintainers and users alike would hold enough respect for both side to know that we are better than to think of others under such a degrading assumption. Let alone do so to enforce a pointless regulation to avoid free falls that just aren't there. Mr. Bogyman isn't going to jump out of some closet of politically legalistic doom. I understand the admins and mods have their reasons, but members and users have reasonable intentions too. Please don't let our amazing community be paved over to become a dead zone where only overbearing regulation remains. The existence of FanFictionNet is thanks to the administrators, but its merit is thanks to the members. I beg you, do what is honorable to correct this madness before FanFictionNet is lost and our beloved website becomes as useless as an empty gas tank
http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/critics+united shows the trolling. https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/view?uname=101978461090701481649&cuname=101978461090701481649&tags=%22Critics+United%22 shows the screencaps.
Interviews[edit]
Sidewinder[edit]
On Thursday, I interviewed Sidewinder via phone about various things going on in fandom as I was looking to write about fandom for Wikinews. In the course of the conversation, she mentioned that FanFiction.Net had purged many adult content stories from their server recently. She noticed this happening because she saw a big increase in traffic to her page at squidoo.com/fanfictionnet-vs-archive-of-our-own that compared FanFiction.Net to An Archive of Our Own. In researching the topic on her own for a possible Squidoo follow up, she discovered that An Archive Of Our Own had largely become non-usable because of the large increase in traffic. She told me that the maintainers of An Archive Of Our Own had an invite waiting list that would not end until December 2012 at current rates. She said the archive had some usability issues as they were not adequately to deal with the many new fan communities trying to share their fan fiction on the site. According to Sidewinder, the maintainers of An Archive Of Our Own were for the first time considering hiring a programmer to deal with the technical problems on the back end, instead of relying on the current volunteer programmers to maintain the code. --LauraHale (talk) 03:37, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Hurricane Islandheart[edit]
I approached a Facebook user I know that I suspected would have been impacted by the controversy through a post on Facebook open to several of my Facebook friends and via Facebook IM. I asked for assistance in understanding the situation and finding others to interview about this issue. Because of concerns about connecting screen names to real names, I will post a modified version where the name has been changed but otherwise keeps the intregrity of the conversation from Facebook:
Facebook posting response:
- Hurricane Islandheart: Laura, I'll post a few links for you. The exodus from FF.net didn't really "crash" AO3 - it just caused massive overload on their servers, which slowed them down to unusable for many visitors, but everything remained online. (I was still able to access my profile for all but a few minutes, and then it just 503'd me for a bit.) The CU thing was WAAAAAAAY overblown. All FF.net was doing was catching up on their site maintenance and reports - people just freaked because they'd finally been caught breaking the rules.
2 hours ago · Like · Dislike
Facebook posting response:
- Hurricane Islandheart: Huffington Post article: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/hannah-ellison/fanfiction-the-book-burning-that-was_b_1592689.html
"Tumblr Against Critics United" - revenge vigilantes being all butthurt on the vigilantes in CU: http://saveourfanfiction.tumblr.com/
There's a paragraph in my blog post from yesterday that sums up my personal thoughts on the topic and how it affects me: http://hihartnfics.livejournal.com/17262.html (Short version: It doesn't. IDGAF.)
2 hours ago
- Hurricane Islandheart: Huffington Post article: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/hannah-ellison/fanfiction-the-book-burning-that-was_b_1592689.html
Facebook posting response:
- Hurricane Islandheart: Probably your best bet would be to see if any of the butthurt kids on Tumblr would be willing to give an interview. I don't know any of them, personally - as I mentioned in my blog post, I've been out of the FF.net loop for ages.
2 hours ago
- Hurricane Islandheart: Probably your best bet would be to see if any of the butthurt kids on Tumblr would be willing to give an interview. I don't know any of them, personally - as I mentioned in my blog post, I've been out of the FF.net loop for ages.
Facebook IM:
- Hurricane Islandheart: That's why most of the "fun" fandom is on Tumblr, now. They're people who've been largely alienated/driven from LJ.
2 hours ago
- Hurricane Islandheart: That's why most of the "fun" fandom is on Tumblr, now. They're people who've been largely alienated/driven from LJ.
If there is a need to verify this, I can provide a screenshot via private e-mail to the reviewers.--LauraHale (talk) 03:47, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Conversation about an archive:
[13:50] Laura Hale: Is MediaMiner.Org still around? [13:57] Hurricane Islandheart: MM.org is still around, but it's not really maintained or moderated anymore. [13:58] Laura Hale: Any impact from the FanFiction.Net thing on it? [13:58] Hurricane Islandheart: Not as far as I've heard.
http://www.fanhistory.com/wiki/Hurricane_Islandheart is background. She used to be an administrator on MediaMiner.Org and was a fan fiction writer. --LauraHale (talk) 07:16, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Tikatu[edit]
I approached a Facebook user I know that I suspected would have been impacted by the controversy through a post on Facebook open to several of my Facebook friends and via Facebook IM. I asked for assistance in understanding the situation and finding others to interview about this issue. Because of concerns about connecting screen names to real names, I will post a modified version where the name has been changed but otherwise keeps the intregrity of the conversation from Facebook:
Facebook posting response:
- Tikatu: You might want to post this on some of the ff.net groups here. I'm part of FanFiction.net Writers Unite!
2 hours ago · Like · Dislike
Facebook posting response:
- Tikatu: The content purge hasn't bothered me at all, really, though I've been lurking around on ff.net's Critics United. They've been blamed for all the deleted stories -- never mind that they don't have enough people to have reported that many fics.
2 hours ago · Like · Dislike
Facebook posting response:
- Tikatu: Didn't hear about the crash. I know one of the eFiction sites (yourfanfiction) crashed. I also know that they had 17K invite requests and are backed up to November.
2 hours ago
Facebook posting response:
- Tikatu: Oh, I agree that the CU thing was way overblown. They're still getting crap from people who are late to the tumblr party.
2 hours ago · Like · Dislike
If there is a need to verify this, I can provide a screenshot via private e-mail to the reviewers.--LauraHale (talk) 03:47, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Tikatu is a Thunderbirds fan fiction writer. http://www.fanhistory.com/wiki/Tikatu verifies this. --LauraHale (talk) 07:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Angelia Sparrow[edit]
The following is part of an interview on AIM. h2oequalswater is my user name:
[16:53] : But quotes from people are always handy and the story goes out to Google News.
[16:53] Angelia Sparrow: I'm not surprised. Ten years ago they purged all the NC-17 stuff. Sounds like they just did a cleanup again
[16:53] Angelia Sparrow: We're getting more puritanical everywhere, you know? All Romance Ebooks is strongly limiting what romances can contain
[16:53] h2oequalswater: Yes. My problem is I wouldn't mind having a more detailed interview of one or two people but I don't know many active fandom people.
[16:54] Angelia Sparrow: I'm not active
[16:54] h2oequalswater: Me either.
[16:54] Angelia Sparrow: I haven't written fanfic in a long time.
[16:54] Angelia Sparrow: My most recent novel is ALMOST Sons of Anrachy Mary Sue fic, set in a paranormal Memphis.
[16:56] h2oequalswater: *nod nods*
[16:56] Angelia Sparrow: If, you know, Chibs was a demon-hunting combat mage
[16:57] h2oequalswater: Can I quote:
[16:53] Angelia Sparrow: I'm not surprised. Ten years ago they purged all the NC-17 stuff. Sounds like they just did a cleanup again
[16:53] Angelia Sparrow: We're getting more puritanical everywhere, you know? All Romance Ebooks is strongly limiting what romances can contain
?
[16:58] h2oequalswater: May or may not use it but could be helpful.
[16:58] Angelia Sparrow: sure, quote me as you see fit
[16:58] h2oequalswater: :D Thanks. :D
--LauraHale (talk) 06:59, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
I have not chatted with her much in the past two years, but I know her to be a fan fiction writer for over 20 years and a professional writer of homoerotic fiction. Background details are available at http://www.fanhistory.com/wiki/Angelia_Sparrow and http://www.fanhistory.com/wiki/Lady_Angel .--LauraHale (talk) 07:02, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Fan responses[edit]
Tumblr[edit]
http://xmarisolx.tumblr.com/post/25147570812/fanfiction-net-sudden-content-enforcement is a post in response to Ellison's story. http://saveourfanfiction.tumblr.com/post/25112059737/huffington-post-ff-net-and-critics-united-makes-the does too. This was reblogged by several people.
Dreamwidth[edit]
feckless-muse banning users: http://feckless-muse.dreamwidth.org/6889.html
http://namikazekamui.dreamwidth.org/521.html says: "Well, what can I say... FF.net had decided to purge all the M-rating fanfiction and there is no way I'm going to let them take my stories and my favourite stories!! So, with that in my mind, I decide to let my ff.net account alone until this fiasco stops itself, and focus to my other fanfiction accounts.
They are>> This site (DreamWidth), Livejournal, yourfanfiction . com, and AO3... all of them in the same pen-name>> NamikazeKamui"
http://fujiwara-nanaho.dreamwidth.org/509.html says: "Just created this account here, I'm afraid that FF.net might purge some of my stories that is considered to be Rated MA and those that are turning into Rated MA.
A little bit more and I will post some of my Fiction stories and FanFiction stories here. Just cleaning and revising some of them..."
http://auronlu.dreamwidth.org/200660.html says: "Signal boost -- ff.net is about to purge any fics that drifted past the "M" rating. Back up your own, and even if you don't have any, don't forget to check favorites. Some stories you like may soon be disappearing."
http://vieralynn.dreamwidth.org/172270.html says: "I realize most people who will read this have already given up on ff.net. It seems that ff.net is getting serious about purging content that they do not agree with from a ratings standpoint, although I've heard other stories about serious wank regarding non-standard fiction formats:"
http://rahirah.dreamwidth.org/543335.html "Approximately 11% of all BtVS stories were zapped. That may not sound like much, but FFnet is big - that comes to thousands of stories."
http://teeye.dreamwidth.org/11626.html says: "It seems there is another great unannounced purge of stories going on at fanfiction.net. I'm not sure if any of the people reading this journal are using the site to archive their stories, but you should maybe think of backing up you stories/comments."
Change.org[edit]
http://www.change.org/petitions/fanfiction-net-stop-the-destruction-of-fanfiction-net is the petition. The comments were chosen because they were the most popular or short. You may need to click "Load more reasons" to view. --LauraHale (talk) 06:26, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
This is what the bottom of the page said when I read it just now:
Recent Signatures
Maria Adams (San Diego, CA) 8 minutes ago Matthew Sandrock (Santa Maria, CA) 15 minutes ago Jessie Brown (Clinton, MS) 40 minutes ago Cynthia Mora (Renton, WA) 41 minutes ago anis rosdi (Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia) 41 minutes ago
James Clarke (Cedar Point, NC) about 1 hour ago Blair Ritchie (Ashland, OR) about 1 hour ago Rianna McMahan (Auburn, WA) about 1 hour ago Hannah Johnson (Tuolumne, CA) about 1 hour ago C.J. Concepcion (Goodyear, AZ) about 1 hour ago
and 29,998 more… --LauraHale (talk) 06:36, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
http://www.fanfiction.net/topic/111772/63683250/1/ is where discussion of the purge story happened. --LauraHale (talk) 06:44, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Media outreach[edit]
Archive of Our Own[edit]
I sent a request on 16 June to the archive via their form asking for a response about how their servers are doing, new registration numbers and the impact of the purge on the site. --LauraHale (talk) 03:56, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
The following is an automated response I received after sending the e-mail:
Inbox > Message Detail Subject: AO3: Support - Media request From: do-not-reply@archiveofourown.org (Add as Preferred Sender) Date: Fri, Jun 15, 2012 8:55 pm To: laura.hale@wikinewsie.org Media request Hi! We're working really hard to reply to everyone, and we'll be with you as soon as we can. In the meantime, please enjoy this automated response as a sign of our appreciation; your feedback is greatly valued, and will be reviewed by our volunteers as soon as possible. Here is a copy of your message for your reference. Hi, I am writing a story for Wikinews about the impact of FanFiction.Net's adult content purge on An Archive of Our Own and other fan fiction archives. I would appreciate a response from the archive for the article about any new registration numbers, server impact, request times, what steps have been taken to address server load in response to the increase in traffic for this article as soon as possible for inclusion in the article. Thank you, Laura Hale Love, the AO3 Support team Sent at: 03:55AM UTC Sat 16 June 2012 If you've received this message in error, please contact Support at http://archiveofourown.org/support The Archive of Our Own is a fan-run and fan-supported archive that relies on your support.
FanFiction.Net[edit]
I sent a request on 16 June to the archive via e-mail for asking the reason for removing the material at this time, the total number of stories removed, the fandoms they were from and traffic differences following the purge. --LauraHale (talk)
Disclaimers: Subjects[edit]
In the issue of transparency, in the early 2000s, I was briefly on staff at FanFiction.Net as a volunteer. I worked with both Tikatu and Sidewinder on Fan History Wiki from 2007 to 2010, before Fan History Wiki pretty much went on permanent hiatus as a result of my thesis and PhD work. I have not been actively involved in the fan community and with either one of them in about two years though we are facebook friends. --LauraHale (talk) 04:03, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Secondary disclaimer: I have not always had a positive relationship with people affiliated with Organization for Transformative Works. I have been mostly absent from fandom for the past two years, have had little to no interaction with them since. (I think I invited them to WikiWomenCamp. I also think I sent an e-mail asking them if they might host Fan History Wiki. I heard back in neither case and that was the extent of my interaction as I recall.) I have tried to be as neutral as possible regarding the organization. --LauraHale (talk) 08:44, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Sourcing[edit]
I have tried to mention all the sources either here on the collaboration page or inline. I have tried to make sure I have referenced them in both but I suspect it did not always happen. The sheer volume of what I was looking at, the number of people I talked to, statistics stuff just made that difficult. I apologise to the reviewers. It is all sourced, but not necessarily in the easiest way to find it. :( I did not link them all in sources because it would get pretty overwhelming pretty fast so I opted not to. I thought it would make the source list on On the campaign trail, May 2012 look short and with the exception of the Huffington Post story, none were news sources. If I need to source them, I can. --LauraHale (talk) 09:58, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
- It is a near-'information overload', when first looked at. But in saying that, you appear to have excerpted quite well as a form of reporter's notes.
- One of the key reasons we have an accreditation programme is to se the bar lower in terms of demands for verification on OR work; once someone has shown they're capable of synthesis, and of providing OR notes that satisfy reviewers, they (like you) can apply for accreditation. The a far higher level of trust is given on contributions. From my point of view, that means the fact-checking element of review can be a little less 'toothcomb-rigorous'. In the case of this article, that's got to be a good thing. Quotes, obviously, will be the important parts to check on this. --Brian McNeil / talk 11:32, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Review of revision 1531102 [Passed][edit]
 |
Revision 1531102 of this article has been reviewed by Brian McNeil (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 14:50, 16 June 2012 (UTC).
Comments by reviewer: This is a monster. I'm thus relieved that it's by an accredited reporter who is widely-trusted, meaning I assume I can be slightly less-rigorous with the fact-checking aspect of the review. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer. |
Revision 1531102 of this article has been reviewed by Brian McNeil (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 14:50, 16 June 2012 (UTC).
Comments by reviewer: This is a monster. I'm thus relieved that it's by an accredited reporter who is widely-trusted, meaning I assume I can be slightly less-rigorous with the fact-checking aspect of the review. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer. |
Concerns[edit]
I have some concerns about this story.
As someone who doesn't know much about fandom or about this story, my initial reaction upon reading this story was "what exactly is Critics United?"
The story doesn't actually explain who they are, other than saying that they are responsible for these events. I eventually had to Google and found their forum, and read this page to work out what exactly the deal is with them.
"BtVS" – what's this?
"Despite the purge, Alexa reports no drop in traffic to FanFiction.Net." – is it likely to? I don't know much about Alexa, but how up-to-date are Alexa rankings? How responsive are they to changes in popularity?
In the paragraph about the petiton, it lists off 10 people have signed it. Who are these people? Why have they been selected? From what I can gather from the talk page, just 'cos they happened to be ten people on the petition site when you looked.
The styling is all off too. Italicising site names... inconsistently. In some of the listings of people who have signed the petition their hometowns are wikilinked, others aren't.
"The traffic increase came on the back of Quantcast reported increase earlier in the year, 57,201 visitors at the end of April, up from 40,560 at the end of March." – surely, Quantcast reporting an increase?
"Discussion of the petition on a FanFiction.Net message board generated over 3,000+ , and is still active." – presumably it "generated over 3,000 responses". The word "responses" is missing, and the "+" is redundant.
"FaceBook" – it is called "Facebook", not "FaceBook".
Then there's the sources used: "xmarisolx" and "candycanine". Who are they? Why should I care what they think? Some of the people who are quoted are contextualised, like say "Long time Thunderbirds fan fiction writer Tikatu" and "Anime fan fiction writer and artist Hurricane Islandheart", but others aren't.
I could go on and on. —Tom Morris (talk) 18:27, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- I gave up after the disaster that is the first sentence. --Errant (talk) 20:13, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- The Wikipedian community has also recently been discussing the problem that people see problems with an article and don't realize they can do anything about it (neither editing the article nor even leaving a comment on its talk page). So this strange "giving up" behavior isn't peculiar to Wikinews. --Pi zero (talk) 21:28, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- I think you misunderstand ErrantX's comment. He didn't even read beyond the first sentence. —Tom Morris (talk) 23:46, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- I did not misunderstand the comment. I chose to write a remark that might be helpful to the commenter if they were interested in being useful/constructive should a similar situation arise in future. There seemed no benefit, for the nonce, in addressing any contrary hypothesis about their intent. --Pi zero (talk) 00:16, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
- Well I'm assuming I read further than the reviewer, who seems to have shrugged and passed it. Because no one reading that first paragraph would a) have any idea what this is about and b) pass it for publication. What do you want me to do? Detail all of the huge problems like this? Investigate the WikiNews review process for ways to avoid situations like this in the future? Investigate the reporter accreditation program to see if that needs readdressing? I'm fully aware we can't fix this now, after the fact. We could maybe delete it? This is supposed to be a news site, so I can allow a certain level of problematic grammar; but this is absolutely littered with issues to the extent it is unreadable. And certainly far from understandable to anyone without an interest in FanFic. --Errant (talk) 08:15, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
- Internal evidence makes it implausible you actually know little enough about Wikinews to assume what you claim to assume. Your remark comes across as a rejection of my attempt to support you in case your intent was good. If such rejection was not meant, I commend to your attention my earlier comments. Wikinews has no AGF to hide behind; we're interested in actual behavior, and reputation accumulated thereby. If necessary, consider that your warning. --Pi zero (talk) 13:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
- Yeh I misread some of the reviewers comments above as meaning the whole article received less scrutiny because she is an accredited reporter; apologies for that. But this seems to make it even worse; because the material is crap, and I don't see how it could have been passed for review. The point of the original comment was intended to communicate the scale of the problem. The second comment tried to detail positive steps that could be taken to avoid this in the future. I checked up on the writers other articles; and they are similarly bad. Is there perhaps a probation mechanism or something? Or is there something else I can do? Obviously editing the article is out - but I could detail all of the problems here on the talk, and how best to fix them, for the benefit of the writer? Tell me what I can do to constructively fix this issue! :) (as to the rest of your comment, I'm not sure what is being implied - but if we're playing the intent game it might look like closing ranks to protect a community member. Commendable, but unfortunate.) --Errant (talk) 08:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
- Internal evidence makes it implausible you actually know little enough about Wikinews to assume what you claim to assume. Your remark comes across as a rejection of my attempt to support you in case your intent was good. If such rejection was not meant, I commend to your attention my earlier comments. Wikinews has no AGF to hide behind; we're interested in actual behavior, and reputation accumulated thereby. If necessary, consider that your warning. --Pi zero (talk) 13:53, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
- Well I'm assuming I read further than the reviewer, who seems to have shrugged and passed it. Because no one reading that first paragraph would a) have any idea what this is about and b) pass it for publication. What do you want me to do? Detail all of the huge problems like this? Investigate the WikiNews review process for ways to avoid situations like this in the future? Investigate the reporter accreditation program to see if that needs readdressing? I'm fully aware we can't fix this now, after the fact. We could maybe delete it? This is supposed to be a news site, so I can allow a certain level of problematic grammar; but this is absolutely littered with issues to the extent it is unreadable. And certainly far from understandable to anyone without an interest in FanFic. --Errant (talk) 08:15, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
- I did not misunderstand the comment. I chose to write a remark that might be helpful to the commenter if they were interested in being useful/constructive should a similar situation arise in future. There seemed no benefit, for the nonce, in addressing any contrary hypothesis about their intent. --Pi zero (talk) 00:16, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
- I think you misunderstand ErrantX's comment. He didn't even read beyond the first sentence. —Tom Morris (talk) 23:46, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- The Wikipedian community has also recently been discussing the problem that people see problems with an article and don't realize they can do anything about it (neither editing the article nor even leaving a comment on its talk page). So this strange "giving up" behavior isn't peculiar to Wikinews. --Pi zero (talk) 21:28, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
┌───────────────────────┘
At the risk of reinforcing the opinion there is 'a closing of ranks', I have to express a degree of dismay at such a sweeping remark as "I checked up on the writers other articles; and they are similarly bad". One is currently listed on WN:FAC, so the generalisation is inappropriate.
If you have concerns regarding this, then copyediting as-yet unpublished works is a constructive input; other input on this discussion page appears to be close to the cliff-face where it seriously degenerates and becomes acrimonious. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:09, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, apologies, I hadn't had my coffee so reacted grouchily. I'll write some articles - that seems a fair way to atone for being grumpy :) --Errant (talk) 09:56, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm unclear how this can be fixed at this time within the context of policy. It can't be fixed as a correction. Normal grammatical errors can be fixed but big rewrites can't. If this was caught within a day, easier to do. It wasn't like I tried to do a poor job or that I bugged a reviewer to pass it with out looking at it, but realistically speaking, I can't see what can be done to fix this particular article at this time and the comments aren't giving me much guidance for how to improve my own writing going forward. I'm at a complete loss as to what to do here and it is rather disheartening to not see a road map to go forward.--LauraHale (talk) 21:49, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- The only thing that can be done at this point is to use the {{correction}} template.--William S. Saturn (talk) 21:55, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- I am now reviewing Tom Morris's edits. Some of them are clearly beyond the pale. I've replaced one of them with a correction notice, customized to the situation. Some of them are frankly petty — stuff that's a matter of taste and clearly not worthy of tampering after the 24 hour horizon. Some are reasonable adjustements within the scope of the archive policy. --Pi zero (talk) 22:01, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- I have completed my review. The preceding is about as good an executive summary as any; I'd have to write an impractically long bulleted list here to explain all the specifics involved.
- I am now reviewing Tom Morris's edits. Some of them are clearly beyond the pale. I've replaced one of them with a correction notice, customized to the situation. Some of them are frankly petty — stuff that's a matter of taste and clearly not worthy of tampering after the 24 hour horizon. Some are reasonable adjustements within the scope of the archive policy. --Pi zero (talk) 22:01, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
- There was, in retrospect, something less than optimal about the form (as opposed to content) of the criticisms here. I'm having difficulty with how to articulate it; most plausible attempt so far is that it's to do with how the criticisms come across (not, to emphasize, actual intent) — the difference between emphasis on complaint about the work, versus emphasis on looking for constructive solutions and ways to improve in future. --Pi zero (talk) 23:08, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Italicise[edit]
{{editprotected}}
the anime/movie/cartoon …names should be italicised.
103.254.128.130 (talk) 06:55, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
- This is a difficult request, as many individual cases need to be sorted through. Just for example, "Harry Potter" isn't actually the title of anything. --Pi zero (talk) 03:09, 24 July 2019 (UTC)