User:Tom Morris/Notes/Bernard Hogan-Howe at the Home Affairs Committee transcription

Parliamentary business listing - Video (requires Silverlight)

Press coverage: Daily Mail, Daily Mirror, Evening Standard, Independent

Related news: Wales Online, BBC News Online, The Guardian

Related documents: Stephen Lawrence Independent Review

Related WP articles: Daniel Morgan (private investigator)

• 16:15 start
• Vaz: subject is the Ellison report
• Vaz: What was your reaction to the Ellison report?
  • Hogan-Howe: distinguish past from present. "What was in that report was shocking" - "one of the worst days as a police officer". Reaction of Doreen Lawrence: "you'd have to be made of stone to be unmoved by that".
• 16:17 Vaz: particularly shocked by the shredding of documents in 2003 - the Lawrence undercover agent was known, but the documents weren't
  • BHH: knew of the shredding on 4 February - immediately shared with Ellison. Some press reports are inaccurate. Some difficulty getting more information. Investigating further: one of the people alleged to have engaged in document shredding is dead. The witness they have has given different dates for the shredding.
• 16:19 Vaz asked BHH what date he estimates it to be now
  • BHH: 2001 - but the witness is not relying on notes but on personal recollection
• Vaz: can you name the person?
  • BHH: no, they are doing the best they can as a witness to help - already feeling quite threatened - doesn't want to intimidate them
• 16:20 Vaz: does seem to be a feature (references Hillsborough discussion conducted immediately prior by Home Affairs Comm.) that people fall ill
  • BHH: the witness has a member of their family who is unwell
• 16:20 Vaz: "you've got the best job in policing in the world - I know you are very proud of being the commissioner - this is a serious blot in the reputation of the Met: that officers-police officers-could be involved in shredding information about corruption in the Metropolitan Police. I mean, it doesn't get worse than that, does it?"
  • BHH: "If the allegation in the terms you put it are true, I'd agree."
• Vaz: "Do you think they are not true?"
  • BHH: "I just don't know. That's why we are going to have to have an investigation."
• Vaz: "Do you think Mr Ellison could just produce a report based on whimsical anecdotes rather than facts?"
  • BHH: "That wasn't what I was saying. [indecipherable - crosstalk]"
• Vaz: "If it's the worst day of your life and you've got terribly upset about it and you were shocked about it as this committee is shocked and the public is shocked, are you telling us now that you doubt the veracity or is it just detail that is missing?"
  • BHH: "No, I don't think that at all. I'm saying in general--"
  • Vaz: "-so it did happen?"
  • BHH: "-in general that I was responding emotionally to the report, and I do."
  • Vaz: [crosstalking] "Sure, but did the shredding take place?"
  • BHH: "And the second point: did the shredding happen? It did. It seems the question is about the motivation of the shredding."
  • Vaz: "Sure."
  • BHH: "So there is an innocent one - it is a normal process of weeding and getting rid of documents. And there is a malicious one. And what we have to do is to establish...