Comments:Florida schools begin to enforce new statewide ban on saggy pants and other revealing attire
|Thread title||Replies||Last modified|
|Illegal to wear saggy trousers?||0||19:41, 19 November 2011|
|A law?||0||14:53, 2 October 2011|
|Comments from feedback form - "It seems to me that legislator..."||0||15:21, 26 September 2011|
|How can you guys support this?||7||05:42, 16 September 2011|
|Opinions from a high school dropout||5||13:09, 5 September 2011|
|school isn't just for learning||6||05:33, 4 September 2011|
|Comments from feedback form - "Good article - just a shame th..."||1||14:35, 3 September 2011|
|Droopy Drawers||0||13:48, 3 September 2011|
|Easy workaround||0||22:44, 2 September 2011|
|Comments from feedback form - "Good. It's about time."||1||16:01, 2 September 2011|
|Wonderful!||0||14:29, 2 September 2011|
|Comments from feedback form - "Calling on all states to follo..."||0||14:20, 2 September 2011|
A ban on saggy trousers? That's ridiculous. Saggy trousers should only be a problem for you if you look at them. In any case, it is a bit uncomfortable for some to witness but even so, it shouldn't be made illegal. Saggy trousers should be on the same level as burping, walking with hands in pockets etc.
My understanding of breaking a law includes some sort of fine at the minimum. If the fine is not paid then you get to go to jail.
Why would the student dress code not cover this? Do legislatures have nothing better to do then look at how teenagers are dressing?
I use to be a rebellious kid. If you told me I could get some vacation time by sagging my pants I might take you up on it.
It seems to me that legislators should focus on the real issues which are violence in the schools, educational quality and student to teacher ratios. ...Of course that would require money - so they bring up irrelevant issues to distract people from the real issues.
What a bunch of Nazis! I think people should be allowed to wear whatever the hell they want, as long as it doesn't show private parts.
As the story has been passed on to me, there was a rumor that at Bertrand Russell's experimental school the children ran around with nothing on. A reporter went to the school, and the door was answered by a nude young boy. "My God," said the reporter, "it's true!" To which the boy answered brightly, "There is no God!"
How can we support it? Quite bloody easily, SweetNightmares. You go to school to LEARN, not to be a fucking fashion statement and show off your booty to your friends. You wear what they tell you to wear, nobody wants to see your ass through a skirt so short it'd barely cover an ant up. Once you're done with school, you wear what you want. Until then, dress because you need to, not because you want to look like a freaking christmas tree.
I absolutely agree with BarkingFish, over here in South Africa the trend is the same, young people dressing like hooligans and then think its cool. My 18 year old daughter's boyfriend came to visit for the first time, sporting a red mohawk, black make-me-look-fierce armbands and baggy pants hanging almost below his bumcheeks. I told him to go home, get neatly dressed, get rid of all the shit and come back when he looks like a decent young man.126.96.36.199 (talk) 20:24, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
I'll have to disagree with BarkingFish here.
Considering That Florida is in the US, that this applies to public schools, and that our Constitution applies in public schools, I'll have to ask for proof that this sort of clothing and fashion statement is a legitimate distraction before I could agree with this widespread ban. After all, youth are citizens, too.
And if we can ban whatever we don't like, then the First Amendment doesn't exist, and neither would the Constitution. I hope someone challenges this in court.
I'm thinking this new law is targeted at ethnic minorities, mostly at the blacks and hispanics, as an effort by the government to make them look a little bit less ghetto-y (lol I just came up with a new word!). Well, it is true that I don't want to see some wannabe gangbanger expose the top half of his ass in public, but I have doubts that this is really going to stop teenagers from dressing like urban street punks. Nobody wants to appear among their peers as if they had no fashion sense. Also the practice of wearing uniforms only applies if someone ends up working for minimum wage, like the kids you see working at your local burger joint or at the supermarket. One workaround I can see with this law that it doesn't apply to students outside or after school time. So as soon as the last bell rings, all those pants will start to slide down. About the girls, does the new law try to prevent teenage boys with raging hormones from checking out girls in the hallways? Why not force all girls to wear an unappealing nun's outfit? Trust me, teens will ALWAYS try to find loopholes in something.
The ethnic angle is an interesting objection.
BTW — nuns' outfits are unappealing?
Can you explain why the "ethnic angle" is an interesting objection?
Much objection here seems to amount to "isn't it terrible that children aren't being allowed to do what they want to in school", to which the natural answer is that children are in school to prepare for life, and how to be presentable is something they'll need to learn in order to get a job. And then there are possible answers to that answer, and so on. Which is a worthwhile discussion to have, don't get me wrong, but I find the ethnic angle interesting because it's distinct from that discussion.
Ethnic minorities aren't the only people who sag their pants. I bet you've seen whites do it, too.
You are correct that teens will find a loophole, like they always do. I went to a private high school that required us to wear uniforms. Boys had to wear neckties, button-down shirts, khakis, and dress shoes. Girls had to wear button-down blouses, skirts, tights, and dress shoes. Having this dress code instilled in us this sense that we were in an institution that had to be respected. We were there to learn, not have fun and do whatever we wanted. Indeed, whenever we had dress-down or jeans days, the entire atmosphere did get a bit rowdier.
Of course, we didn't always take the dress code that seriously. Some boys would often sag their khakis a bit, but since the dress shirts are a bit longer than they need to be, no underwear showed. The leather shoes we were supposed to wear didn't always look polished — a few guys even tried wearing black sneakers!
The dress code violations were rarely egregious, however. The faculty weren't sticklers on how we looked, mostly because everyone looked "decent enough". The point is to instill a sense of respect, not to enforce a particular fashion. Indeed, no faculty member in their right mind ever required a girl to tuck in their shirt, since the skirts' waistlines were too high. Girls rolling instead of tucking their shirts may have been bad, but having 500 girls that looked like they were wearing kilts would have been worse. =P
I'm 53 years old and I had to wear a school uniform, my daughter is 18 and in grade 12 and will be wearing her last uniform this year. In the schools here in South Africa uniforms are still mandatory, tie and blazer, it instills pride in your school. No makeup allowed, no long nails and no long hair for boys. No cell phones either.188.8.131.52 (talk) 13:09, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
As long as what people wear don't actually inhibit their fellow students from learning, nothing should be banned because it infringes on their rights. Yet again the ACLU is in the right on this one.
School is a place where students go to socialize, learn to express themselves, among many other things (extra-curricular activities)...the clothes they choose are another aspect of that self-expression. It makes life interesting and fun, and allows them to explore their fashion sense.
The strangest thing is its being pushed by one senator, with the flimsy argument that "well I wouldn't hire anyone wearing saggy pants".
This completely ignores, of course, that they can easily *change clothes* for interviews and work, and assumes that everyone has the same hiring mentality as this lone senator does. Not only that but it completely ignores the rights of the students, their say, how it affects *them*. No one ever seems to ask that question, its just what some old senator thinks in a disconnected position of power. Completely ridiculous, hopefully other states have saner policy makers out there who actually respect people's rights.
Teaching isn't just from books, it's preparing kids for the real world. I work in an office with a lot of young-fresh-from-college kids that can't handle the simple dress codes here. Kids have to learn they can't always dress how they want in the real world and be a respectable adult. Sorry kids but unfair dress codes are a part of life you have to get used to, better do it now when the penalty is a little trouble in school instead of unemployment. By the way, how much individualism and self expression is there in a played out 15 year old trend that everyone and I mean EVERYONE that has been in high school in the last 15 years has taken part in. Kids aren't expressing themselves when they sag their pants their following a trend, which is the EXACT OPPOSITE of individualism. What exactly are they trying to express? That they can dress just like everyone else? Their already conforming they just don't know it yet. We can't let high school age kids decide the rules base on what they think is fair, are you kidding? So teach the kids when they grow up, they may have to wear cloths they don't want to wear, that responsibility / respectability isn't always fun. Most importantly teach them that there are a lot better outlets for self expression and CREATIVITY then following someone else's trend. I have never, nor has any other adult, meet an employer outside fast food that does consider how an applicant presents themselves in an interview - welcome the the real world.
Hmmm, that sounds a bit familiar, only it was with a different teen subculture. If I remember correctly, the original goth and emo kids at school dressed and acted that way, along with listening to "emo/goth music" while expressing anxiety and depression with their reason being, they were the nonconformists. When the emo/goth trend suddenly became popular around 2006-07, every 13 to 16 year old has been trying to copy the look, resulting in messy hair, overdone makeup, and wearing all-black clothing. Thank god it eventually went away though! But yeah, the person above me has made a good argument.
Well 184.108.40.206, I disagree :P.
I'm sure there is pressure in school to conform, but that shouldn't be used as an argument to take away all of their freedom of choice as to what they should wear. Just because there are examples of trends doesn't mean that's all thats involved in freedom of expression...people should have the right to buck the trend, start a new trend, choose who they want to be. You've just picked out one negative example, but there's a lot more to fashion than you give it credit for. Although I understand that this law will target only specific clothing styles, I still think its wrong because unless it adversely affects students learning, its really up to them.
Also I'm not saying let the high school kids decide whats fair or right to wear, but I did say that the simplest solution is just to inform them on the importance of a dress code in business, so that they can change their clothes for that situation. You say that people have trouble adapting to the dress code...I mean its the students loss. If they can't understand something as simple as a dress code, do they really deserve to work on a level that is more intellectually challenging than that simple decision? I mean surely you and other perfectly normal people sometimes dress in sweat pants at home, or wear some shabby old clothes that you wouldn't wear to work. You wouldn't make the argument that people have to get used to a dress code, so they should wear a suit and tie at home all the time! Different situations allow for different dress codes, and school simply isn't a place where you have to dress in formal business attire.
There are other outlets for creativity and self-expression, but just because they exist shouldn't mean that we should close the "lesser" outlets. Also who are we to make the decision? Fashion is extremely important to some people, some make a career around it (i.e. fashion designers).
Your last argument actually goes against what you're saying...you say that you've never met an employer outside of fast food that considers how an applicant presents themselves...I'm dubious about this, according to the many employment guides and counselors I've talked to, but if you stand by that then you should be arguing that dress code doesn't matter in school because presentation is irrelevant. Although perhaps you mean just the interview, although I'd think thats the most important part.
220.127.116.11 said, "You wouldn't make the argument that people have to get used to a dress code, so they should wear a suit and tie at home all the time! Different situations allow for different dress codes,"
Steve Jobs, former CEO of Apple Inc., could dispute that. Have you ever seen him or his colleagues were suits or even any kind of uniforms to work, excluding retail store employees? No, Steve wears whatever he wants (black turtleneck sweater, blue jeans, sneakers, glasses) because he likes to. "We’re Apple. We Don’t Wear Suits. We Don’t Even Own Suits.” Lol, the understatement of the decade.
My apologies, that last part of my last post was a typo, I should have typed "does NOT consider". I know from experience apple does in fact have a dress code, I've been there. It's lenient, but they are still expect that employees be presentable - specifically no sagging pants or relieving clothing. No ones talking about putting all the kids in public high schools in suits and ties, what Florida is enforcing here is nothing more then the basic expectations in 99% the adult world..... Steve Jobs may not ever wear a suit but he does take great care in how he presents himself - fitted jeans, turtle neck (tucked in), black belt, clean sneakers. Not a three piece but still kind of conservative. Point is I'd bet cash you can't see anybodies underpants in the apple board room.
Good article - just a shame that these suits are so much more worried about being fashion police rather than focusing on actually educating kids. Suspensions? Really?
Welcome to the
dreadful realm of hell and torture world of high school, you poor misunderstood kid spoiled punk-ass brat, where our government-approved teachers will systematically and gradually deprive you of your individuality, sanity, and free speech teach you the necessary skills of being a miserable adult with a dead-end job working around the clock 'til you reach retirement or drop dead productive member of the workforce once you graduate from highschool or end up dirt poor on the streets or in prison. Enjoy the next four years of your life!
Yup, this may have sounded a bit cynical, but it pretty much sums up how America's school system works.