Comments:Israel says cluster bomb use was legal

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That Israel gets away with it is beyond me. Makes me agree. How can they ever justify 5 lifes of "soldiers of war" against 1200+ dead and many wounded innocent human beings. Not forgetting the physical shock of all people (especially kids) that lived through those 34 days and still do today.

In my opinion the balance of justice is way off. Everybody sees it and nobody is really held accountable. Is the moral compass of people of power broken? Maybe the criteria for getting power is having no moral compass at all.

Erik

(The above comment can be used on all wars)

It funny how people are fast to blame Israel[edit]

A nation that is always attack by suicide bombers, but yet if they defend them self. Ohh it a crime ageist humanity. Funny I think the Islamics extremest don't care what weaopnes they use against Israel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.35.146 (talk) 16:31, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No one said suicide bombers don't commit crimes against humanity. I think most people agree they do. But they are terrorist organisations by their nature they don't care what other people think that much. None of this however justifies Israel commiting crimes against humanity. Are you really trying to compare Israel to a terrorist organisation, that hardly puts Israel in a good light? If Israel is a terrorist organisation then logically the US should aim to destroy them as part of the war on terror... BTW, the number of civilians killed by Israel generally vastly outnumbers the number of Israeli civilians killed by suicide bombers. By your argument suicide bombers are simply defending themselves so we shouldn't criticise them for their actions. Nil Einne 15:59, 2 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Israel says cluster bomb use was legal" - factual problem[edit]

It is estimated that Israel dropped up to four million cluster bombs last year, one million of which did not explode,

-Four million cluster bombs!

If every single aircraft capable of bomb-payloads in the Israeli arsenal where dropping cluster bombs, at a highly optimistic rate of 4 sorties a day: 243 * F-16 of all variants 25 * F-15E Strike Eagle

268 aircraft * 4 sorties * 8 CB * 365 days a year = 3,140,240 cluster bombs

That is, it would take every single airvraft in the IAF inventory flying at an incredible 4 sorties a day at an even more incredible 365- days a year just to drop 3 million clusterbombs. The 4-million figure is clearly ridiculous.


I believe the 4 million cluster bomb point references the amount of individual bomblets, some as many as 300, even 1000, per bomb which are deployed when a cluster bomb detonates. That is to say that 4 million actual bombs is dubious, but 4 million explosive bombLETS derivitive from something like a few thousand bomb-UNITS, is more factual. It is still no less of a human tragedy and a dispicable act on behalf of Israel, who fields one of the most advanced and accurate air forces on EARTH -rivaling the United States in intelligence and targeting precision- to be conducting general bombings on 'infiltrated areas'. Also known as the cities in which people live, where their adversaries happen to take up root thinking the bombing will be more discriminate. It's true that the populace needs to suffer in order to reject the extremists taking root in the city, otherwise they will not likely mind them, but Israel should not try to sugar coat the truth, that they wish to pound into submission not only the insurgents, but the will of any citizen to resist, which is how previous wars like WW1 and 2 were won. Complete and total submission. This is the reality of war, and with most enemies it is remarkably effective. However, when you have an enemy that not only finds solice, but GLORY in their own demise and 'martyrdom', it is quite futile to bomb the general public as they will only see it as further justification for their continued mutual strife; the extremely powerful israeli army fighting for statehood, and the 'underdog' rebels fighting to reject that same notion. In gentile society, the more deaths per side, the more unbearable war becomes. The fact that in Muslim society, the notion of death is the very justification for MORE death, is possibly the explanation as to why conflicts in this region seem to mull on for thousands of years. The other side of this coin is, how could western society not have known this fact when attempting to become involved in this area. The only people who can exist in arabia are arabs, because the arab notion of normailty seems to be dull, eternal war. The pashtuans in Afghanistan swear as part of their honor code several admiral things such as hospitality, asylum to those in need, and family cohesion. However, as peaceful a people they may be, an even stronger value is that of revenge. Sadly, revenge is also a value in several of the other warring tribes in that embattled land, so the struggle continues on between tribes and families with the American forces desperately trying to unite them against the OUTSIDE enemies infiltrating and regressing society. It would seem that removing western influence from arab lands would be the only true solution, however, the call for the establishment of a global islamic caliphate (which extremist groups seem to think is easiest achievable by causing the demise of western economics and society through terror) continues to grow stronger as anti-western sentiment rises, which would mean the spread of Islam and with it Islamist extremism means western isolationist practices would only last so long. The end-state as it seems (and perhaps the true agenda of America in attempting to gather up so many footholds in the middle-east), would be to create Islamic republics that do not loathe the west quite so much; places in which Muslims can exist comfortably in their traditional environment, but reap the benefits of a liberal capitalist society if they so choose. Excellent examples of mid-east fusion with western practices can be seen in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait, who -to varying degress- have integrated the best of both worlds to form an economically viable, reasonably free, and admirably peaceful balance between two very different schools of thought. This could perhaps be the model for success that America hopes the rest of that region will adopt, eventually spreading the idea that you can have your cake and eat it too, provided a slight bit of cooperation exists between the parties involved. What a dissertation this turned out to be, I think I'll save it somewhere and forget it for 10 years. 214.13.9.26 16:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]