Talk:Man apologizes for grandfather's duty as a concentration camp guard
The issue of whether the Holocaust actually occured is debatable, and there is a large volume of literature that questions the Holocaust's authenticity. It is important to explain this in an article that concerns the Holocaust. Zeest(Talk)(Newpages) 11:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Is that so?
Usually, Holocaust deniers are anti-Semites and as far as I know no serious objective historian denies Holocause (not to mention the survivors, witnesses, thousands of pictures made by the Nazis themselves, et cetera). Denying Holocaust is a small group of extremists, while absolute most of the world accepts Holocaust as a fact.
--TacticalSniper 11:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- "Holocaust denial (commonly called Holocaust revisionism by its supporters) is the belief that the genocide of Jews during World War II" -w:Holocaust denial (emphasis mine)
- "The Holocaust, [...] is the name applied to the genocide of..." - w:The Holocaust
- "As the Holocaust is generally considered by historians to be one of the most documented events in recent history, [Holocaust denial] are not accepted as credible by scholars," - w:The Holocaust
- "Articles that compare views need not give minority views as much or as detailed a description as more popular views. We should not attempt to represent a dispute as if a view held by only a small minority of people deserved as much attention as a majority view. That may be misleading as to the shape of the dispute. If we are to represent the dispute fairly, we should present competing views in proportion to their representation among experts on the subject, or among the concerned parties." - WN:NPOV converting a reference to the Holocaust to "alleged Holocaust" goes flagrantly against this.
- Although I personally do agree thatit would be pretty difficult for even the most determined Zionist to fake 6 million deaths, I must raise certain points:-
- Holocaust revisionism is not just a belief-it is a school of thought regarding which several works have been written.
- Just because some scholars believe the Holocaust occured, doesn't mean we should enforce that POV on tha erticle when another POV exists.
- Holocaust denial is not just a POV, but a theory which is currently being studied. It is important to inform readers that such a theory exists. Zeest(Talk)(Newpages) 12:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- No, it is not "some scholars" it is every single serious legitimate scholar because of the existence of overwhelming evidence. The only people who deny that it happened are anti-Semites. Anyway, this is simply a report about what one person said and did. It is worth pointing out, however, that there is a big difference between "concentration camps" and death camps. Most concentration camps in Germany proper were not places in which systematic murder took place, but rather were prison camps. In other words the Holocaust as such did not take place in Bremen - thouggh doubtless there were acts of brutality, malnutrition, typhus etc. Paul Barlow 13:11, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
- Paul Barlow is exactly right. Holocaust denial is not a historical theory. Academic theories take the facts and find a conclusion. Holocaust Denial takes the conclusion and tries to find facts for it. The only people who "study" Holocaust Denial are those who desperately want to prove it to be true (or perhaps those who are interested in how people can delude themselves of anything they want to believe) No semi-legitmate scholar accepts this as a valid theory. DrDisco
Holocaust denial has the same level of legitimacy as any other crackpot historical theory that is driven more by wishful thinking than serious inquiry. Except that it includes a large dose of bigotry and malice. These people have the right to say anything they want, but I have the right to show them the contempt they deserve. --Leifern 14:10, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
- Iran is inviting many people to participate in their 2006 Iran Holocaust Conference. Maybe the research presented there will wake people up to the facts about the Holocaust. Not that it didn't exist but that it had/has been exagerated for political propagandah. 220.127.116.11 17:29, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
All mainstream/orthodox/peer reviewed/yadaydayada historians have inrecent years revised the Holocaust substantially, without notice or comment. Most prisons in Germany were classified as death camps - now it has been quitely revised to no German camps were death camps. What evidence was used to make this new classification was never published - a secret peer review I suppose. Any links to this peer review for those who usually love this type of argument. Simply, how and why and by whom was this revision done, and done so meekly and quickly - I didn't hear a single peep from our normal crowd of proHolocaust supporters when this happened. Normally I would have expected Wikipedia to have screamed and fought to the last man on this one - but not a word. What evidence was found that was new, or what old evidence was debunked? Links please.