To add the catogery of Islam or not

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"The article talks about the Shari'a law of Islam"

Clearly nothing to do with Islam, then.

BRS (Talk) (Contribs)12:21, 30 December 2016

When news articles of India are not categorised under South East Asia, Christmas day is not tagged with Christianity and Boxing Day with Commonwealth nations, why is Shari'a law, which is to Islam tagged with Islam?

Disingenuous in the extreme;

  • Category:South East Asia does not exist; articles on India are in Category:Asia
  • Category:Christmas was created two years after all but one article in it, so naturally it was added retrospectively; it is also a bizarre edge case celebrated almost by geography rather than denomination, despite it's origins (Santa is only red because Coca-Cola wanted him to be, and has nothing to do with Jesus).
  • Category:Boxing Day does not exist. Category:Commonwealth nations does not exist. Any category for the Commonwealth would discuss the union itself; it is artificial, and not a geographic delineation.

Since we're asking passive-aggressive questions, why is this thread posted as an opinion?

BRS (Talk) (Contribs)16:56, 31 December 2016

Simple questions:

  1. If South East Asia category was there, would you list India in South East Asia?
  2. Saudi Arabia is in the Asian continent, why is it categorised in Middle East rather than Asia?
  3. Why are we adding the categories of the higher hierarchy when we have more precise categories?
    1. Which makes me ask, why not add the categories of respective national leagues — Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A to the UEFA Champions League articles because the (German, Spanish and Italian) clubs are able to participate in the Champions League because of their performance in their national leagues.
  1. Of course. Or nominate it for deletion; depends on exactly how well-defined SE-Asia is.
  2. I have no idea. Feel free to propose the alternative. These were debated in the mists of time, many years ago; at this stage, I couldn't tell you how decisions were reached and be at all confident I was accurately reflecting the conversation.
  3. So that people interested in these topics can see all the relevant articles in one place (note that when placing categories into subcats we do list them by the lowest denominators).
  4. Categories are based on what's in the articles. If the information you describe appears in a given article, that would create a strong case for inclusion in the cat. As a related tangent, there has been discussion of late as to whether league cats should include games played in them (like one would for a geographic cat) or articles about the league itself (like a cat for an organisation with member states such as the UN or EU). Historically, I'd have gone (as have you) for the first; there's now some feeling maybe we should go for the second.

A rule of thumb is to imagine a news source dedicated purely to covering all news for a given topic. Could that source write an article on this? A hypothetical IslamNews could write at least two stories, with a different focus each: Pakistan moves to end Islamic Sharia practices in 'honour' killings (interestingly, Sharia defies any attempt to properly describe it in a headline; it is a widespread, but by no means universal, phenomenon, as described on its category), Pakistani senator says honour killing law waters down Islamic law (very interestingly, meets the same problem; further compounded that Eng-lang sources sometimes use "Islamic law" as bywords for Sharia when as I understand it Sharia is a form of Islamic law, but not the sole topic that can be described thus. Then again, Hamdulla doesn't name Sharia specifically.)

Now, we don't need to work out good headlines; we're not IslamNews. Suffice that such a source could produce articles out of this. This line of thought is what leads me to think Bundesliga etc apply to matches played in the respective leagues. I understand arguments to the contrary, however.

I've answered your questions, carefully and in detail; now answer mine: Why is this debate happening in Thread:/Comments: space, known affectionately as trollspace, and not a water cooler or other community space?

BRS (Talk) (Contribs)13:59, 1 January 2017

I guess you have to find your answer on your own. I said, "It is interesting to note that honour killing is not limited to Islamic countries. India democratic and secular, honour killing is still practiced in Punjab, Haryana, Uttar Pradesh and Rajasthan." But you chose to say "The article talks very clearly about Islamic concepts. Did you even read it?" It might be possible, I would have written the news article absent-mindedly. When I tried to say why I feel my opinions were correct, I was welcomed by your taunt "Clearly nothing to do with Islam, then." Am I not allowed to post my comments on this page, tell me.

I suspect there was some context of events not visible in this thread that took place between the original comment and the remark about POV-pushing. This may well have led the entire thread to develop a certain disconnect, of people talking past each other. That's unfortunate, and it seems to me everyone is getting rather more on-edge about this thread than is entirely warranted.

Pi zero (talk)15:16, 1 January 2017

"I guess you have to find your answer on your own."

Indeed, you still haven't said why this is in trollspace.

"This may well have led the entire thread to develop a certain disconnect"/"Am I not allowed to post my comments on this page, tell me."

Shitposting to this degree is certainly more likely to be tolerated in trollspace than elsewhere.

BRS (Talk) (Contribs)15:58, 1 January 2017

I don't know how much you know about the other Abrahamic religions, but if you are unable to understand why I commented on this page, (evidently yes, opinions and arguments were replied with biased comments taunts) that is not my fault. "Shitposting", sure.

If you don't want "taunts", get out of trollspace. Good of you, though, to utterly ignore the detailed answers provided.

This will be my last comment; so, feel free to help yourself to the last word.

BRS (Talk) (Contribs)16:27, 1 January 2017

I did not ignore the answer. But, tell me why are articles speaking about Jesus and/or Mary are not categorised under Islam and Judaism? Instead of thinking about improving the categorisation, we are focusing religion.

 

I encourage both parties to simply drop this thread. I don't think it's accomplishing anything positive.

Pi zero (talk)16:34, 1 January 2017

Well, indeed. At first I thought this was the lack of knowledge of the other Abrahamic religions, but it turns out to be biased point of view towards Islam, something that I often have to witness.

You think BRS is being anti-Islam biased, he thinks you're being pro-Islam biased. You're both talking past each other, and you're both sniping at each other. There; that's all one needs to know about the whole thread. Finis.

Pi zero (talk)16:48, 1 January 2017