User:MDP23/Log1

Text indicated by bullet has been reviewed and added into Interview format to: Wikinews interviews Mark Bunker, producer of anti-Scientology website 'XenuTV'.

Done: Everything done here. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 22:12, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

• 16 Feb 2008 21:06:57<@brianmc> Okay, time to start I think.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:07:02<@DragonFire1024> I agree
• 16 Feb 2008 21:07:08<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker: ready?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:07:22<@brianmc> have you voiced him?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:07:46<@skenmy> That would, of course, help :)
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:09<@DragonFire1024> OK...
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:19<@DragonFire1024> ground rules
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:22<@DragonFire1024> We have a lot of questions
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:30<@Adambro> DragonFire1024: can we hide the joins/quits, I can't remember how to do it
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:37<@DragonFire1024> not sure
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:40<@DragonFire1024> skanemy
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:42<@DragonFire1024> oops
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:45<@DragonFire1024> skenmy might
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:53<+Mark_Bunker> can you see me?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:08:58<@skenmy> It's not possible server-side on Freenode :)
• 16 Feb 2008 21:09:00<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker: yes :)
• 16 Feb 2008 21:09:20<+Mark_Bunker> okay. goood.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:09:30<@DragonFire1024> So everyone:
• 16 Feb 2008 21:09:48<@DragonFire1024> IF there is time after the pre-asked questions, we will have live Q and A
• 16 Feb 2008 21:10:15<@DragonFire1024> gonna be a lot of people, so only voiced users can speak, and OPs
• 16 Feb 2008 21:10:54<@DragonFire1024> So...
• 16 Feb 2008 21:11:10<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker: Why don't you start by telling us about yourself and what you do
• 16 Feb 2008 21:11:21<@skenmy> I hope we can look past the immense amounts of joins / parts :)
• 16 Feb 2008 21:11:40<@DragonFire1024> yes...unfortunately it only works on a user basis
• 16 Feb 2008 21:12:18<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker: Why don't you start by telling us about yourself and what you do
• 16 Feb 2008 21:13:03<+Mark_Bunker> I work in TV news in San Diego and have been speaking out about Scientology's fraud and abuse since 1998. I worked "anonymously" for a year before showing my face and starting my website XENU TV.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:13:41<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker: Tell us about your history with criticism of Scientology?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:15:14<@DragonFire1024> There is a bit of a lag everyone. So hang in there
• 16 Feb 2008 21:18:03<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker: is All ok?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:18:07<+Mark_Bunker> In 1998 I was living in a house in the Hollywood hills. The woman who lived there prior to em was a Scientologist. Probably at the Celebrity Center because I would get her issues of Celebrity magazine and other Scientology periodicals. Reading them left me bewildered. They have their own language in many ways. I was intrigued and visited the Celebrity Center at one point to check the...
• 16 Feb 2008 21:18:08<+Mark_Bunker> ...place out with a friend -- as a skeptic, mind you. I took the personality test, played with an e-meter and got my own personal screening of Orientation before sitting down with the head of the CC.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:18:46<+Mark_Bunker> I had seen the 60 Minutes reports in the 80's but didn't have a lot of knowledge at my fingertips.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:19:05<+Mark_Bunker> I wish I knew then what I know now so I could have asked pointed questions.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:19:30<@brianmc> Such as?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:19:48<+Mark_Bunker> I did ask things like, "Do I have to buy all these books? Don't you have a library?"
• 16 Feb 2008 21:20:02<+Mark_Bunker> Of course, they want you to buy everything
• 16 Feb 2008 21:20:33<+Mark_Bunker> After 45 minutes, I broke it to him that I wasn't interested.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:20:54<+Mark_Bunker> I went home, did a quick search on the net and found out about XENU.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:21:41<+Mark_Bunker> Then I discovered Operation Snow White and Operation Freakout and other crimes committed by Scientology.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:21:52<+Mark_Bunker> This was more than some silly little group.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:22:29<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker: Has the Church ever been convicted of any crimes?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:22:46<+Mark_Bunker> I was amazed that this whole different world existed inside the U.S. and no one really paid attention to it.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:22:59<@brianmc> okay this has been advertised globally on the irc.partyvan.org network, we're just going to have to live with all the join/leaves
• 16 Feb 2008 21:23:57<+Mark_Bunker> It has been convicted in the Canada for some of the same same espionage tactics they used here in Operation Snow White.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:24:47<@DragonFire1024> How would you describe yourself in the context of religions, churches, and belief systems, and what you are seeking to accomplish
• 16 Feb 2008 21:25:20<+Mark_Bunker> There have been more but I don't have them at the tip of my fingers. That's the nice thing about the net. You can now quickly research anytime, anywhere.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:26:36<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker: How would you describe yourself in the context of religions, churches, and belief systems, and what you are seeking to accomplish
• 16 Feb 2008 21:27:06<+Mark_Bunker> I think I stand outside the religious arena. I'm not interested in buying a ticket for the big game. People are free to believe anything they want but when it comes to fraud and abuse, I think it's important to object.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:28:03<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker: There are other religions that practice things that are just as bad as Scientology. For example the Catholic Church, Scientology and Islam dislike/sin homosexuals. Why protest Scientology? The Catholic Church, in terms of atrocities, has likely committed more? Even Muslim extremism...Is Scientology really worth more to protest than those religions or any other?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:28:05<+Mark_Bunker> The Catholics standing outside the Boston churches, protesting the priest sex abuse scandals were heroes in my mind.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:28:55<+Mark_Bunker> Scientologists who stand up to David Miscavige and say stop disconnection, forced abortions, the Rpf and fraud are as well.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:29:05<@brianmc> That was protest the crime and coverup? Similar to your work?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:31:09<@brianmc> People, Wise Beard Man is obviously not a fast typist, please be patient.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:31:44<+Mark_Bunker> Exactly. It says nothing about the Catholic religion to say stop the priest sex abuse. Except it does make one wonder how a religion could systematically cover up such rampant abuse.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:32:03<+Mark_Bunker> Sorry. I am a slow typist and slow thinker.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:32:11<@DragonFire1024> no problem :)
• 16 Feb 2008 21:32:18<@brianmc> Considered responses are more valuable
• 16 Feb 2008 21:32:32<@brianmc> next Q DF
• 16 Feb 2008 21:32:46<@DragonFire1024> Other that your experiences with ex-members of Scientology, do you have any special qualification that would make you an expert on so-called "cults", i.e. do you have a degree in sociology, anthropology, psychiatry, psychology, theology, or any similar related subject area?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:33:18<+Mark_Bunker> none whatsoever. I took one course in world religions back i college. That's it.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:33:56<@DragonFire1024> would that include the fields of tax law, i.e. do you have a degree in accounting, finance, law, or any similar related subject area?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:34:27<+Mark_Bunker> I am not a psychologist. I am not not going to council people in need of therapy. I speak out against fraud and abuse. Anyone can do so.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:34:43<+Mark_Bunker> Far from it.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:35:35<@DragonFire1024> Ok now onto general questions on Scientology
• 16 Feb 2008 21:35:37<+Mark_Bunker> Nor have I studied Political Science but that does not prevent me from speaking out against the Bush administration.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:35:43<@brianmc> heh
• 16 Feb 2008 21:35:46<@DragonFire1024> indeed
• 16 Feb 2008 21:35:49<@DragonFire1024> :)
• 16 Feb 2008 21:36:05<@DragonFire1024> Scientology, as many members have claimed, has saved their lives. Do you think, comparing the circumstances, the good things Scientology has done, out weighs the supposed bad things it has done?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:38:38<+Mark_Bunker> Well, people can feel they gain benefits from a wide range of things. I am not opposed to anyone following Scientology and auditing themselves till the time they drop their bodies. But along the way, many people are getting hurt. Fix that and people would stop protesting. Although I think they may stiull giggle about Xenu.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:39:27<@DragonFire1024> What will it take to get Congressional Hearings to review the Church of Scientology?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:39:46<@brianmc> Specifically, their tax-exempt status
• 16 Feb 2008 21:40:02<+Mark_Bunker> We have the amazing ability to convince outselves about anything. Our government is protecting us by wiretapping our phones and getting us into a needless war while letting the real terrorists regroup. But - hey -we were scared and went along with it.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:40:48<@brianmc> giving up freedom for temporary safety?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:41:09<+Mark_Bunker> Sit in a dar room and imagine there is some scary creature about to get you and you can probably raises some goosebumps. That doesn't mean that there is actually anything i the room.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:41:39<+Mark_Bunker> We easily can be tricked and trick ourselves and lead with emotion instead of intellect.

16 Feb 2008 21:42:31<@brianmc> Q: Scientologists can be divided into three main groups: public Scientologists, staff at lower orgs, and Sea Org members with each group smaller than the previous. The Sea Org members can be further divided into two groups; the large number of rank and file and a very small group that includes OSA and RTC. Does it strike you odd that a large percentage of outspoken critics claim to have...
*16 Feb 2008 21:42:32<@brianmc> ...knowledge granted only to the smallest percentage of Sea Org members?

• 16 Feb 2008 21:43:18<+Mark_Bunker> So people may feel that Scientology has saved their lives but has it? Have they not also lured them into a group which takes over an increasingly large part of their lives and income, at the same time it is stripping them of their reality to replace it with Hubbards?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:45:08<@brianmc> Q: What, if any, changes or improvements have been made in Church policy and structure since Hubbard died, and more recently too, that might have already addressed, at least partially, issues such as Snow White, Lisa McPherson, disconnection, unrealistic promises of Scientology benefits, etc? On what do you base your answer to this question?
• 16 Feb 2008 21:45:39<+Mark_Bunker> Sorry for falling nehind. As to the Hearings, it is going to take a groundswell of media interest into the abuses before it happens. There's a lot of work that needs to be done.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:46:07<@DragonFire1024> its ok :)
• 16 Feb 2008 21:46:49<@brianmc> We can and likely will reorder stuff - its just that with so many people here there is quite a lag.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:48:30<@DragonFire1024> just say "ready" when you are ready for next question Mark_bunker
• 16 Feb 2008 21:48:51<+Mark_Bunker> On public knowledge versus Scientologist knowledge, that is troubling for me. We on the outside know what is in store for the people moving onto the brdge. I think it is bait and switch to not tell them that their real problems are they are covered with BT's. That's a major case of fraud in my mind.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:49:19<@brianmc> If you want to type a couple of responses to a question finish the first off with ... then we know there's more to come.
• 16 Feb 2008 21:50:52<+Mark_Bunker> I spoke with Billy Sheehan last weekend at the picket and he told me is an OT3 and would talk about anything about his religion. I asked him to tell me about Xenu and Body Thetans and he couldn't. He just can't. He's not allowed to. I am free to do so. how are you becomng a better, more free individual when you have to follow such strict orders or a group that promises to theach you to...

16 Feb 2008 21:50:54<+Mark_Bunker> ..."Think for yoursef?"

16 Feb 2008 21:51:13<+Mark_Bunker> okay...
16 Feb 2008 21:51:29<@DragonFire1024> How do you think most Church members feel about your protests? What would you say to those who would criticize your protests as misguided or the information you post and expose as untrue?
16 Feb 2008 21:55:20<+Mark_Bunker> The only major policy change I've seen from DM is the introduction of the Lisa Cause.  What Scientology learned from the tragic death of Lisa McPherson is to have all their members sign a form to say they grant Scientology the right to treat them as they did Lisa and to promise not to sue.  Otherwise the group seems to be as militant as when hubbard was still around which is astonishing in a...
16 Feb 2008 21:55:21<+Mark_Bunker> ...way.  A cult usually dies with it's founder.  I believe Scientology is a cult yet it lurches on with the help of it's richest members and the ability to bleed dry the rank and file.
16 Feb 2008 21:56:29<@brianmc> I assume you mean "Lisa Clause"?
16 Feb 2008 21:57:03<+Mark_Bunker> We are seeing some indications that the Scientologists insde the group are responding to the protests.  There was one insider who got a message of support out.  Clearly, when materials like the Tom Cruise tape are being leaked, there are people inside who are concerned about how the group is behaving.
16 Feb 2008 21:57:18<+Mark_Bunker> yes.  Lisa Clause
16 Feb 2008 21:58:31<+Mark_Bunker> As to Scientologists who say that I don't know what I'm taling about, why do I have documents to back up my claims and they have shore stories?
16 Feb 2008 21:59:38<+Mark_Bunker> ready
16 Feb 2008 21:59:41<@brianmc> We have a somewhat difficult question to put next...
16 Feb 2008 21:59:42<@DragonFire1024> Is R2-45 Auditing a joke within Scientology, or is it actually real?
16 Feb 2008 22:04:16<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker_: Is R2-45 Auditing a joke within Scientology, or is it actually real?
16 Feb 2008 22:04:39-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v Mark_Bunker_] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:06:26<+Mark_Bunker_> I think it was probably a sick joke by Hubbard but he did actually put it in some orders.  It's not anything I ever discuss.  There is so much sensational material about Scientology.  People find it hard to believe the actual truth.  I have no knowledge of anyone being shot by Scientology and wouldn't claim otherwise...
16 Feb 2008 22:07:27<@brianmc> Do they actually run camps associated with that?
16 Feb 2008 22:07:34<+Mark_Bunker_> That said, I find it unbelievably odd that DM's mother-in-law supposedly committed suicide by shooting herslef with a shotgun...three times.  That's wierd.  But I won't say it's murder.
16 Feb 2008 22:08:34<+Mark_Bunker_> R2-45 camps?  Never heard of it.  DM loves guns but there's no camps fr shooting.
16 Feb 2008 22:09:01<+Mark_Bunker_> next
16 Feb 2008 22:09:07<@brianmc> DF?
16 Feb 2008 22:09:30<@DragonFire1024> What is the next step we should take in raising the general public's awareness of the atrocities of the "Church" of Scientology. Also, besides http://www.XenuTV.com , what are some other, reputable, citable sources of information on these abuses?
16 Feb 2008 22:09:32<+Mark_Bunker_> DM?  Dabid Miscavige.
16 Feb 2008 22:09:36<+Mark_Bunker_> David
16 Feb 2008 22:09:39<@DragonFire1024> :L)
16 Feb 2008 22:09:41<@DragonFire1024> :)
16 Feb 2008 22:10:31<@brianmc> DF = DragonFire1024 our raving reporter. :P
16 Feb 2008 22:10:44<@DragonFire1024> :)
16 Feb 2008 22:11:30<+Mark_Bunker_> There are plenty of great sites starting with the granddaddy of them all - www.xenu.net.  Professor David Touretzkys various sites are well researched and important resources.  Stop-Narconon and such...
16 Feb 2008 22:12:44<+Mark_Bunker_> My favorite book on Scientology is Bare-Faced Messiah.  It and many others can now be read on the web.  I'd like to do audio book versions of them for people to download.  Where or where is the time, however.
16 Feb 2008 22:12:57<+Mark_Bunker_> next
16 Feb 2008 22:13:02<@DragonFire1024> Why does Scientology accuse people of crimes when they are asked questions?
16 Feb 2008 22:15:28<+Mark_Bunker_> Hubbard put it into writing.  "Always attack - Never defend."  There are policy letters where he ordered people never to answer questions about Scientology but instead twist it around to the crimes of the critic.  So when you see that happening in my videos, you are hearing Hubbard's words come through the Scientologist's mouth, whcih is one of the reason I never get mad at them.  This is...
16 Feb 2008 22:15:30<+Mark_Bunker_> ...what they are taught.  They literally can't think for themselves.
16 Feb 2008 22:15:33<+Mark_Bunker_> next
16 Feb 2008 22:15:46<@brianmc> Mark, we're sitting at a little over an hour of your time used up here, are you game to keep going, or should we be picky on the questions and try and wrap up? I suspect all these people from anonymous are eager to get voiced and have a word with you - the interview was advertised on their network
16 Feb 2008 22:15:47<@DragonFire1024> Why do you think Scientology dangerous? From a European (French) point of view there are many strange organizations in the United States (Nazi party, many religious groups). Why is Scientology your fight?
16 Feb 2008 22:16:15<@DragonFire1024> true
16 Feb 2008 22:16:21<+Mark_Bunker_> I have the afternoon free but it must be boring as hell waiting for me to type something.
16 Feb 2008 22:16:27<@brianmc> heh
16 Feb 2008 22:16:43<@DragonFire1024> :)
16 Feb 2008 22:19:13<+Mark_Bunker_> I think Scientology is dangerous to individuals who find their realities stripped.  I think it;s dangerous to families when they are broken up by disconnection.  I think it's dangerous to society when they write laws that our politicians back to attack psychiatry.  Anytime they stop free speech, I think that's bad in general....
16 Feb 2008 22:21:46<+Mark_Bunker_> Scientology is my fight ebcause others were too afrain to take them on.  I hate bullies.  Scientology (while dangerous) acts like a big school yard bully.  Now if that bully in 4th grade had a crack legal team and a gang of devoted foillowers who would do dirty tricks t send you to jail, a mental ward or the grave -- he would have been a real threat! ...
16 Feb 2008 22:22:45<+Mark_Bunker_> Scientology also brings together my general interest in cults, sci-fi and Hollywood in a unique way.  I never expected to pick a fight with a dangerous cult but someone had to stand up to them.  I thought I could help.
16 Feb 2008 22:22:48<@brianmc> And that's part of the reasons you support 'Anonymous' and - apart from DDoS - their actions?
16 Feb 2008 22:24:13<+Mark_Bunker_> People need to stand up and speak out.  If Anonymous can do that legally and you've shown me you can, then I will happily support that...
16 Feb 2008 22:24:22<@brianmc> I've seen your response to their protest on YouTube you almost seemed proud that a younger generation had "taken up the torch"
16 Feb 2008 22:25:49<+Mark_Bunker_> People have been attempting to get Scientology to reform for close to 60 years.  They have resisted all change.  When I reached out to Anonymous, I thought I may well get attacked myslef but I saw immediate reform in the group.  Scientology could learn a lot from Anonymous.
16 Feb 2008 22:26:58<@brianmc> DF?
16 Feb 2008 22:27:03<@DragonFire1024> What happened to Bob Minton? He is alleged to be in favor of Scientology now. Did they give him an 'incentive' to stop his protests of the Church? In a video of yours, posted on YouTube (Scientology: Clearwater Trip - Day 3 - Pt 2), Minton says that the Church attempted to "pay him money" several times. Did they finally succeed? Or was he blackmailed into shutting up?
16 Feb 2008 22:28:35<+Mark_Bunker_> The biggest protest in the past was maybe 50 - 60 people.  Anonymous got thousands of people out everywhere around the globe and did so peacefully.  I am proud of them for that.  We've laid the groundwork for years.  Now hopefully, some of Anonymous will continue to learn more and to speak out.  There will be attrition but so far there seems to be an eagerness to make a real positive impact.
16 Feb 2008 22:29:27-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v AutisticPsycho] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:30:28<+AutisticPsycho> How many members of Scientology do you estimate are within the organization?
16 Feb 2008 22:30:53<+Mark_Bunker_> I wrote about Bob on my blog last week.  He is my friend and I was there through most of his struggle.   Scientology launched a global assault on Bob which we came to describe as having the Terminator coming after you.  Rather than type it all out again, check out the blog .
16 Feb 2008 22:30:56<+Mark_Bunker_> http://xenutv.wordpress.com/about-bob-minton-and-the-lmt/
16 Feb 2008 22:32:27<+Mark_Bunker_> Far fewer than Scientology estimates.  they now say ten million but I think they are counting me for coming in a and playing with the e-meter....
16 Feb 2008 22:33:13<+Mark_Bunker_> The best source would be the census reports which put the number pretty low.  More people claimed to be Jedi Knights than Scientologists in the UK for example....
16 Feb 2008 22:33:53<+Mark_Bunker_> http://www.xenu.net/archive/COS_members.html
16 Feb 2008 22:33:57<+Mark_Bunker_> next
16 Feb 2008 22:34:11<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker_: we are going to open the floor...is it ok that the rest of the pre asked questions be done VIA e-mail?
16 Feb 2008 22:34:16<@brianmc> I think we're about done here, is there anything we should have asked that we didn't?
16 Feb 2008 22:34:17<+Mark_Bunker_> sure
16 Feb 2008 22:34:34<@DragonFire1024> I got a few PM's with some Q's
16 Feb 2008 22:34:38<+Mark_Bunker_> not that I can think of
16 Feb 2008 22:34:44<+Mark_Bunker_> kay
16 Feb 2008 22:34:47<+AutisticPsycho> I have one.
16 Feb 2008 22:34:51<+AutisticPsycho> One more.
16 Feb 2008 22:35:06<+AutisticPsycho> Mark: What is your opinion on Free Zone Scientologists?
16 Feb 2008 22:36:08-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-v AutisticPsycho] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:37:18-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+o skenmy] by ChanServ
16 Feb 2008 22:37:20<+Mark_Bunker_> I consider them friends.  I support their wish to follow Hubbard's tech.  They do so without the criminal aspects of Scientology itself.  People can knock themselves auditing as far as I'm concerned.  I'm worried about the fraud and abuse.  I believe Hubbard was a conman and we have the documents to prove it.  If the freezoners don't care, I can't stop them.  They aren't emptying people...
16 Feb 2008 22:37:21<+Mark_Bunker_> ...accounts and breaking up families.
16 Feb 2008 22:37:41<@brianmc> Mark_Bunker_: Thank you for your time Mark, you've done pretty well for someone who types with two fingers. :P Smithers! Release the hounds!
16 Feb 2008 22:37:56<@DragonFire1024> ok
16 Feb 2008 22:38:06<@DragonFire1024> I have some users with a few questions
16 Feb 2008 22:38:08<+Mark_Bunker_> Typing is not a favorite past time
16 Feb 2008 22:38:13<@brianmc> heh
16 Feb 2008 22:38:17<@skenmy> Damn - looks like I missed most of the fun ;)
16 Feb 2008 22:38:30-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v DA-freakshow] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:38:36<+DA-freakshow> As you know now, the Anonymous Protests Was Extremely Huge, But we are planning a Second Round The 15th Of March. And i - a 12 year old WILL attend, is that a Good Sign that so young a person Want to be involved, or is it a bad sign?
16 Feb 2008 22:39:10-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-v DA-freakshow] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:40:38<+Mark_Bunker_> Well, it's good if you understand what you're getting yourself into and your parents or guardians are aware as well.  Scientology is serious.  They won't harm you but the don't play games either.  12 year old kids get swept into Scientology's Cadet Org and moved into the Sea Org shortly after.  That is far more dangerous to a 12 year old than picketing fraud and abuse.
16 Feb 2008 22:41:13-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v Carbonflux] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:41:24<+Carbonflux> Mark_Bunker, can you put any of this in a historical context ? have you studied the history of Scientology in relation to its "parent" organizations ( cults praying on the elite ) in the 18th - 20th centuries ? ( Many of El Ron Hubbard's ideas were taken directly from OTO which he was a member of in his early life for example. )
16 Feb 2008 22:41:28<+Carbonflux> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordo_Templi_Orientis
16 Feb 2008 22:41:33<+Carbonflux> thanks :)
16 Feb 2008 22:41:39-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-v Carbonflux] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:44:09<+Mark_Bunker_> Hubbard did call Crowley his good friend but I doubt that he was seriously deep into it.  I think he stumbled into a situation at Jack Parson mansion in whcih he could live high off the rich guys cash and steal his hot girlfriend.  I think he probably enjoyed a good laugh at the satanic rituals he engaged in but it certainly informed his understanding of how to run such a group and how...
16 Feb 2008 22:44:11<+Mark_Bunker_> ...people can buy into any wacky beliuef system.
16 Feb 2008 22:44:49-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v toresbe] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:44:59<+toresbe> By sheer virtue of numbers, we have become very hard to harass, to the point of the personal risk to ourselves being almost negligible. There have been others before us with far more courage who have spoken up against far greater odds.
16 Feb 2008 22:45:26<+toresbe> What do you think the effect of our actions have been on these "pioneers"? (yourself included) Do you personally feel that we anons have revitalized the more "serious" efforts of those in the past who have come out with full names - and have probably gotten into problems over this? And do you believe it serves to ease the process for those scientologists who were already considering leaving?
16 Feb 2008 22:45:32<+toresbe> thanks
16 Feb 2008 22:45:37-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-v toresbe] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:45:38<+Mark_Bunker_> To deny Hubbard's connection to OTO is impossible but it also one of the most bizarre aspects of his life and many people would think it impossible and over the top criticism.  That was one of the many flaws of the movie, The Profit.
16 Feb 2008 22:49:19<+Mark_Bunker_> Ultimately Anonymous' rise will be beneficial.  It can cause people inside to rethink their beliefs and draw media attention to Scientology's fraud and abuse.  All very good.  The way they rose however is a double edge sword because when I do interviews, I have to respond to white powder mailings and bomb threats.  The anonymous nature and early attacks on Scientology make it easier for...
16 Feb 2008 22:49:21<+Mark_Bunker_> ...Scientology to blame these more serious charges on the group.  People in the vast unwashed public aren't looking into it very deep and can believe Scientology's distortions...
16 Feb 2008 22:50:13<@brianmc> The issue has had very positive press in Belgium :)
16 Feb 2008 22:51:21<+Mark_Bunker_> There is also the fear that we old timers can be lumped in with those abuses.  I'm sure Scientology is going to accuse me of being a  leader of terrorists.  That is a huge risk I run but in helping reshape Anonymous to a kroe peaceful leag group, I believe I am doing a great service to Scientology.  Not that thyey'll thanks me.  Especially if the Tax Exempt status is revoked.
16 Feb 2008 22:51:39<@brianmc> heh
16 Feb 2008 22:52:05-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v jennam] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:52:11<+jennam> Hi Mark, I was just wondering if you were aware of the many other abuses of other religions such as The Watchtower organisation of Jehovah's Witnesses.. They do things strikinly similar to Scientology with regards to killing and abusing members and disconnection policies - now, I'm in no way in favour of the management of Scientology but it does look a little blind to me when these other so-called religions get off scott-fr
16 Feb 2008 22:52:12<+jennam> Have you heard of any such allegations before? My concern is that while a step forward is good against one religion, there are others out there just biding by without no real exposure essentially letting them get away with their abuses.
16 Feb 2008 22:52:13<+jennam> I was also wondering if you knew if The Profit would ever be released for viewing?
16 Feb 2008 22:52:17<+Mark_Bunker_> even i don't know what kroe was supposed to be.  Although I remember wanting to type legal after it.
16 Feb 2008 22:52:23<+jennam> (Thanks)
16 Feb 2008 22:52:27-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-v jennam] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:55:12<+Mark_Bunker_> jen, there are some horrible abuses in other churches.  I interviewed a couple people in a christian cult in Wisconsin with horrific stories to tell.  I feel I have my hands full fighting Scientology and  hope others speak  out for what they feel needs to be redressed...
16 Feb 2008 22:56:29<+Mark_Bunker_> I stumbled upon a great site awhile back from former members of the Children of god.  This group's founder promoted sex with kids and sent women out to recruit new members by sleeping with them.  Give me a moment and I think I can find the site...
16 Feb 2008 22:57:17<+Mark_Bunker_> http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Category:Video_Archives
16 Feb 2008 22:57:50-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v themandotcom] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 22:57:51<+Mark_Bunker_> Watch some of these videos and your jaw will drop.  This kind of thing happens every day and we are unaware of it.
16 Feb 2008 22:57:57<+themandotcom> What do you say to those people that say that  Anonymous and the similar groups are religous bigots?
16 Feb 2008 22:58:02<+themandotcom> thanks :D
16 Feb 2008 22:58:19-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-v themandotcom] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 23:00:17<+Mark_Bunker_> Just say no.  People can believe what they want.  Just stop the fraud and abuse.  And if you speak out against my god Zeus, I will call you a bigot, too!
16 Feb 2008 23:00:59-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v StevenFruitsmaak] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 23:01:16<+StevenFruitsmaak> Mark_Bunker_: Isn't it strange that some countries are recognising Scientology as an official religion while other countries pursue the Church? What would you say to lawmakers in the former country? Perhaps a short 3 things you need to now about CoS?
16 Feb 2008 23:01:17<+StevenFruitsmaak> thanks
16 Feb 2008 23:01:26-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-v StevenFruitsmaak] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 23:04:30<+Mark_Bunker_> While there is a shared humanity, there are differences in laws and customs, too.   Religion is such a taboo here in the U.S. that cloaking themselves with that was the smartest think Hubbard ever did.   Germany has a unique perspective since it is in their charter that they will never again allow an extremist political group to rise again...
16 Feb 2008 23:05:26<+Mark_Bunker_> That is an important thing to point out.  They are not just a church.  Hubbard wrote about how they should take over the government and be the ones to say what is legal BEFORE Scientology is stopped.
16 Feb 2008 23:05:46-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v Kakama] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 23:06:20<+Kakama> Mr. Bunker, what do you think of the fact that Anonymous' motivations are not a moral outrage and are in fact based on the desire to destroy something and get laughs, aka lulz?  What about the fact that Anonymous regularly uses illegal activity for it's purposes (though we have suspended most in this raid) and is often risque and perverted in nature?
16 Feb 2008 23:06:21<+Mark_Bunker_> Another important thing to know is that Scientology lies.  If they are talking to you, they are lying to you.  Look for the documented proof.
16 Feb 2008 23:06:23<+Kakama> I would also like to add that we wish for you to join us on irc.partyvan.org #xenu for more assistance with establishing long term goals to destroy/cripple the cult.
16 Feb 2008 23:06:45-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-v Kakama] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 23:07:01<+Mark_Bunker_> The third thing, DM is a snappy dresser.
16 Feb 2008 23:07:04<+Mark_Bunker_> Sorry couldn't come up with a third thing right now.
16 Feb 2008 23:07:12<@DragonFire1024> lol
16 Feb 2008 23:08:16<+Mark_Bunker_> The thousands in ANonymous who have reached out to me have moved beyond the lulz.  There are going to be many who drop out but there are more who will learn and continue....
16 Feb 2008 23:08:17<@brianmc> Okay, we're going to close off the managed session shortly and allow this to descend into anarchy.
16 Feb 2008 23:09:07<+Mark_Bunker_> Just this morning a member sent me a link to a Portuguese version of the Anonymous message to get people involved in his country...
16 Feb 2008 23:09:32<@skenmy> Bare in mind that we will remove anyone who is offensive or derogatory. Be mature and sensible :)
16 Feb 2008 23:09:47<@DragonFire1024> and patient
16 Feb 2008 23:10:25<@skenmy> I would like to extend my utmost thanks to Mark, on behalf of the Wikinews team :) I'm sure they'll want to chip in as well :)
16 Feb 2008 23:10:32<@DragonFire1024> skenmy: moment
16 Feb 2008 23:10:34<@DragonFire1024> one more
16 Feb 2008 23:10:40<@skenmy> Of course ;)
16 Feb 2008 23:10:56<+Mark_Bunker_> And a 14-year-old girl in Finland said she gave a class report on Scientology because of this and got an A+ .  She also told me she baked a cake for her mom and dad -- and put my name on it.  I told her she's done something no one else on the planet has ever done.  :0)
16 Feb 2008 23:11:10<+Mark_Bunker_> So the word gets out at the positive succeeds.
16 Feb 2008 23:11:11<@DragonFire1024> :)
16 Feb 2008 23:11:19<@DragonFire1024> ok one more managed question
16 Feb 2008 23:11:27-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [+v Neglacio] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 23:11:29<+Neglacio> Hey Mark. How do you feel about the several nicknames given to you, like Wise Beard Man, and the several slogans accompanying it? And, by the way, what music do you like? ;) Thanks :D
16 Feb 2008 23:11:44-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-v Neglacio] by DragonFire1024
16 Feb 2008 23:12:43<+Mark_Bunker_> WBM is great.  The people at work love it.  I suspect many of the ladies are wearing Wise Beard Man thongs -- but won't admit it.  And possibly some of the guys...
16 Feb 2008 23:13:08<@DragonFire1024> LOL
16 Feb 2008 23:13:22<@skenmy> XD
16 Feb 2008 23:14:27<@brianmc> One last thing before the onset of anarchy... Do you have a photo for us? see http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/WN:YOURPHOTO
16 Feb 2008 23:14:41<+Mark_Bunker_> As for my taste in music, I have to admit I was never in my era at anytime in my life.  I never listended to the radio growing up so I became a fan of people in old movies like Bing Crosby from the Hope and Crosby films.  Don't hate me for it.  My taste runs more to Mel Torme and Rosemary Clooney in their later jazz period and can be heard in some of my videos.
16 Feb 2008 23:15:09<@DragonFire1024> ok...well that's all I have...Mark_Bunker_ anything you want to add?
16 Feb 2008 23:15:32<@DragonFire1024> before we let them take over the channel
16 Feb 2008 23:15:49<+Mark_Bunker_> yes.  I hate to lose any cred by saying I love Rosemary Clooney.
16 Feb 2008 23:15:56<@DragonFire1024> heh
16 Feb 2008 23:16:15<@DragonFire1024> We are Wikinews. We don't take sides...We report them
16 Feb 2008 23:16:18<@DragonFire1024> ;)
16 Feb 2008 23:16:18 *  skenmy snickers.
16 Feb 2008 23:17:13<@DragonFire1024> ok...the rest of the pre asked questions will be sent VIA e-mail
16 Feb 2008 23:17:24<@DragonFire1024> only because there were so many...so don't feel left out
16 Feb 2008 23:17:25<@skenmy> Thanks everyone!
16 Feb 2008 23:17:41<@DragonFire1024> MarkBunker_ thanks for your time and knowledge
16 Feb 2008 23:17:49<+Mark_Bunker_> Here's perhaps my favorite song however...
16 Feb 2008 23:17:51<+Mark_Bunker_> http://www.ronthemusicmaker.org/music/eng10.ram
16 Feb 2008 23:18:12<+Mark_Bunker_> It's Hubbard himelf singing one of his original songs, "Thank you for Listening."
16 Feb 2008 23:18:21<@DragonFire1024> heh
16 Feb 2008 23:18:32<+Mark_Bunker_> You have to be in a cult to believe this man was a master at everything he touched.
16 Feb 2008 23:19:34<@skenmy> Thanks again to Mark, the Wikinews team running the event, and everyone who asked questions!
16 Feb 2008 23:19:38<@DragonFire1024> Mark_Bunker_ thanks again for everything :)  we will e-mauil the questions soon
16 Feb 2008 23:19:47<@skenmy> Keep an eye on http://en.wikinews.org/ for further news and articles
16 Feb 2008 23:19:50<@skenmy> NOTICE: All chat in this room will be logged. That means we can use it if we want :) Consider yourselves warned!
16 Feb 2008 23:20:21<@skenmy> Mark_Bunker_, feel free to drop out at any point :)
16 Feb 2008 23:20:27<+Mark_Bunker_> thanks.
16 Feb 2008 23:20:31-!- mode/#wikinews-interviews [-m] by skenmy
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