User talk:Dmitry Rozhkov/Mikhail Gruznov: We do not understand what is happening on Wikipedia

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Initial comment[edit]

This is quite the interview, I haven't had time to read it all. Is it about Russian Wikipedia, English Wikipedia or both, or even more languages? I'd establish that early in the introduction before the interview begins. Cheers, --SVTCobra 22:50, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

OK, I can see it is focused on ruwp, but it should be made clear. And I'd change "wikipedist" to "wikepedian" ... Anyway, I'll stear clear for a while. Cheers, --SVTCobra 23:11, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Potential difficulties[edit]

@Dmitry Rozhkov: Looking at the current draft,

  • Afaict you have no first-hand experience on English Wikinews? Both prior experience here and accumulated reputation here facilitate original reporting here, and the more intense the story exercises things like WN:Neutrality, the more important they become.
  • Achieving neutrality on this seems challenging.
  • I'm concerned about the introduction. The effects involved can be very suble. One wants the introduction to provide a neutral, objective foundation for the general reader, to understand what they're about to read about and as a stable platform from which to observe the unfolding of the interview. On first reading though (and subject to further study) it seems as if it may be trying to convince the reader of the interviewee's credentials. That's a worrisome attitude for the interviewer to take; my immediate reflex is concern over ways an interview could be biased by the attitude with which the interviewer approaches it; careful consideration of this aspect of things is certainly called for.
  • If the interviewer is an experienced Wikipedian, I'd expect documentation on this to include a serious discussion of WN:COI concerns.
  • WN:Newsworthiness#The Wikimedia exception.
  • So far (in the draft state at this instant), I'm not yet seeing documentation on this. We require careful documentation for OR, lots of it; and the accumulated-reputation aspect makes everything that much harder (though clearly you have lots of reputation in another wikimedian venue, some of which might carry over... keeping in mind, assessment of that reputation may be difficult for most English Wikinews reviewers due to the language barrier involved).

Those are some first thoughts. --Pi zero (talk) 23:56, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

@Dmitry Rozhkov: Documentation on OR generally includes reporter's notes on the talk page explaining the circumstances — what the reporter did, how and when, including their record-keeping procedures and such. Actual records (such as handwritten notes, audio recordings, whatever) often are sent to scoop rather than being posted on the public wiki (that's "scoop at wikinewsie dot com" — note it's "wikinewsie", not "wikinews"), since parts of them may contain personal information, e.g. email addresses; the fact that they've been sent to scoop is then stated on the article talk page, creating a public record that that was done. A good example of OR documentation at en.wn is this article. --Pi zero (talk) 14:42, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
OK, it seems, figured it out. This will take some time, as I'm away now. --Dmitry Rozhkov (talk) 11:58, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

I could not figure out what "non-system opposition" is.[edit]

--Gryllida (talk) 00:54, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

@Dmitry Rozhkov: Is there an original version in Russian? Gryllida can probably help translate some of the awkward phrases such as "non-system opposition" and "the war inside the article" and others. Cheers, --SVTCobra 07:14, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Submit now for review?[edit]

I've not yet seen the author make any changes for one month. Time to submit now? --George Ho (talk) 04:47, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

There was a matter of documentation. --Pi zero (talk) 05:01, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
The timeframe on this is getting long, even for a major piece of OR. The reporter did say "This will take some time, as I'm away now", though I don't recall an indication of scale on that. At some point we'd userspace this. @Dmitry Rozhkov:. --Pi zero (talk) 13:51, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
I guessed the author was just slightly confused with the procedure, so I have pressed "submit" by myself. This is an exclusive interview and all of the words are just personal opinions directly translated from another language. Because of this, "fact-checkings" have little sense, because the translation just needs to be a simple translation. It's needed to be grammar checked, not fact checked (besides intro). No statements are made from Wikinews (already), all words are attributed to Dmitry Rozhkov and Mikhail Gruznov. I think, we have just to correct the intro to explain all of this. And check grammar then. And then publish. --Ssr (talk) 14:46, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Yes I talked to Dmitry and he says he's away and can't do much more now. But I am sure he was successful in making translation and could not understand what to do with reviewing process. He did not realize he had just to press "submit", and no one also did. So I did it today. Now, only composing good intro and checking grammar is needed. A good English language story on what happened may be found here: https://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/07/05/revenge-of-the-editors --Ssr (talk) 15:11, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Of course OR doesn't mean no-documentation-required. To amplify: no, "composing good intro and checking grammar" is not all that's needed. Granted, those things are needed. --Pi zero (talk) 16:27, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
In Russian Wikinews (where the translation is from) we make a difference between OR and EI (exclusive interview). OR is publicism that needs proves and EI is direct speech where responsibility is on the speakers (a type of prove also, when attributed). In short, OR and EI are different types of content, EI is not OR. --Ssr (talk) 16:59, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
@Ssr: The opening paragraphs needs documentation or notes; they exist outside the interview. For the interview, it is usually documented via an audio recording or a transcript. Sometimes it is a series of back and forth e-mails or an online chat log. They do not have to be published on-wiki, but the reviewer needs evidence the interview took place. Otherwise, I could get an exclusive interview with Vladimir Putin published, no? Such documentation can be sent to scoop@wikinewsie.org ... Cheers, --SVTCobra 17:14, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
I do not know now if an audio exists, but if a confirmation from Mikhail Gruznov himself is needed, I know him personally and can ask him to confirm in a way you would recommend. Should I ask now? --Ssr (talk) 17:53, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
I'll defer to Pi zero on that, Ssr. A review has begun. I personally don't have access to the scoop account. Cheers, --SVTCobra 18:08, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
(It is helpful, in sorting out cultural differences between ru.wn and en.wn, to know about ru.wn's distinction between EI and OR. We don't have an equivalent here to ru.wn's EI, although a subset of our original reporting articles are called exclusive interviews.) --Pi zero (talk) 18:39, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Sorry about the edit I made during your review, Pi zero. I'll wait until the review is finished. --George Ho (talk) 17:44, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Review of revision 4512715 [Not ready][edit]