Comments:Russia joins South Ossetian war

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Countries really are like children. Fephisto (talk) 14:05, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Second that. Why people just can't live peacefully? *sigh* Rhethorical question. -- Wesha (talk) 19:19, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Russians are always occupant... Krwawy

It is obvious how Georgian command has planned this attack to coinside the Olympics. They wish it will be eclipsed by The Games. Media has more cover of the sports, wars are too often and too boring to cover... Especially when involved parties are not albans or kurds, and attacker is not Saddam Hussein or George Bush. Just like the Darfur conflict is put into obscurity.

As for Russian involvement, it was not Russia to shell Tskhinvali. And it is not Georgian cities that the Red Cross evacuates the wounded civilians from. Russia's responce is far lesser than American responce on Serbia's war in Kosovo was. It is Tskhinvali, not Tbilisi, bombed.--Beaumain (talk) 15:53, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

REUTERS: GEORGIA TAKES GAMBLE WITH MOVE ON REBELS[edit]

Copyvio of http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L8117957.htm removed for legal reasons. —Original comment was unsigned and added by Beaumain (talkcontribs) 16:55, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

help people of South Ossetia[edit]

People from all world help people of South Ossetia, the Georgian fascists suited a genocide against the osset. They cut out 1400 person, have destroyed completely 8 villages with the population. Well that send Russian brothers, but the Georgian fascists still cut out us, your help is necessary to us. Tell to the authorities that the Georgian fascists were judged by the international court. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.236.197.182 (talk) 21:56, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Only if Russia Gets judge for ethic cleaning Chechnya and the other Post Soviet union conflicts. --KDP3 (talk) 03:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

the word war[edit]

"war" such a awful word. --Redoak89 (talk) 22:46, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

I think[edit]

The worse is yet to come.--KDP3 (talk) 01:16, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

What are the reasons?[edit]

Does anybody have slightest idea of why Saakashvili has decided to start all this nonsense? When he ordered to flatten down the towns populated by Russian citizens he knew very well what the consequences will be. It was mentioned many times that there never was hatred between Ossetians and Georgians, like it exists between Abkhazians and Georgians; but now it's in the past -- after Georgians murdered and injured thousands of Ossetians, now they have every right to consider Georgians as their deadly enemies. The chances that Ossetia will be returned to Georgia were average before 2004, were about zero a month ago, and became negative now. Georgia itself is likely to be occupied soon. Where this passionate desire to drive the situation from bad to worst comes from? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.112.228.39 (talk) 12:32, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

It is a lie! You all were purchased! And you were for a sale! Russia against war! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.149.123.204 (talk) 20:09, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

It seems to me like only Russian side is editing all the comments and text here (Or maybe anything else gets deleted?), so I think a little review of things from Georgian side will not be unhelpful. (hope it doesn't get deleted) It might be a bit opinionated, but then, it's in the section of opinions.

1. Why would Geoprgia do this? (some asked this question). Georgian answer is: INDEED WHY? Georgians would never just do this. The only possible explanation is that it was a provocation. To check this hypothesis we look at the events chronology:

  • russian mobilisation of army accompanied by reported clashes almost all the way through the summer.

(russians say Georgians also concentrated and mobilised their armies, but let's look at the facts:

 **at least 2000 Georgian (best) troops were in Iraq (an are now hopefully on thir way back as I write this, it's the evening of august 9). WHY?
 **if you look at the map of Georgia (the size of it), you'll see that there really is not much need for concentration of troops (you cross the country in about 5 hours by car, or alternatively get to the place of events (north CENTER of the country) i under 3.5 hours from probably every single point of the country.
 **Mobilisation was called only the next morning (actually almost afternoon) from when the fights began.
  • Heavy clashes reported days prior to august 8, with both parties blaming eachother for breaking the ceasefire eachtime. Of course Georgian side could be the agressor, but there some issues to be considered
 **If you think you are clever enough (and some definately do) to ask: "why did georgians attack, didn't they know that russia was much more powerful". Then why do you think that the goverment of Georgia is less clever than you, not to think about this issue?
 **Again there is a possible couterargument to this, that Georgian side relied on convincing the world in our innosence. BUT, as I'm seeing at the moment all the press is getting information from exclusively russian side. ruissia is clearly winning the information war, so what did georgian side rely on? didn't they know this? and after all Georgia only requests a foreign NEUTRAL PEACEKEEPING army to step into the conflict, not an georgian aid from other countries. isn't this sufficient evidence?
  • In the evening of 7th august Georgia announced a one side ceasefire in the hope of a response ceasefire. the held their positions for 2 hours, but then a massive offensive from separatist side began. some 10 casualties were reported. Again, russia blamed Georgia for breaking the ceasefire, but previous arguments apply here as well.
  • During the night on 8th August Georgia launched a major counteroffensive, with additional troops supplied from other parts of the country during the night. the cleaned major bombing positions in the region, but the separatists were moving back to new strategic positions. Thus georgia decided to launch an "operation to restore constitutional order in the region". This included regaining control over the area. During the night almost all the area was taken and in the morning p[arts of the capital Tskinvali were captured.
  • Georgia stoped the offensive from 3pm to 6pm on august 8 to allow civilians to move out. while georgian media was quiet for a while (during this period) russians started reporting that 150 of their tanks were on their way, then approaching, then taking over and finally have taken tskhinvali.
  • After 6pm Georgia resumed the operation. Tskinvali was taken with no reported russian troops in it. (except an abandoned peacekeepers base)
  • Since then russia started continuous air bombing of Tskinvali, but also of other georgian towns located near the region. At first bombs fell only nearby the buildings or people, in empty fields. On the same evening ressians started bombing towns distant from the conflict zone and also bombing the actual buildings, including rather than fields. Most airports were bombed (which, OK seems acceptable during the WAR, although they never declared it) but rather crucially other peaceful locations have been bombed. And even when russians were bombing military biuldings, they often missed them to hit civilian buildings. dozens of casualties were reported among civilians.
  • To this moment (august 9 evening), Georgia is still holding positions gained on august 8, Although some attacks and very heavy air bombing of all positions, Tskinvali and villages around are reported. Georgian posts nearby and not only are also heavily bombed. 55 (as I heard on TV) casualties are reported outside the conflict region (through bombings).

Although various russian sources have cliamed to have regained control over Tskinvali

 ** This seems unlikely, as starting from Aug 8; 6 pm, russians first reported taking over Tskinvali, then entering S. Osetia, then Again taking over tskinvali, Then Approaching Tskinvali and Incoherent information of this kind.

Finally: different people can blame different or both parties for the situation. But it is the Georgians who ask for Internationally controlled peacekeeper army, not the military help for Georgia. And it is Russian who want to "solve" everything by a "very neutral" peacekeeping army, who "just by accident" happens to be Georgias neighbour from North (where S. Osetia is). And "just by misfortune" has failed establish peace in the region, in "as little time as" just 17 years. Even if Georgians are the Aggressors, don't they deserve a chance of fair trial, that is A fair peacekeeper army, rather than peacekeepers being the other side of the conflict?

Sorry, for the unchecked style, spelling and Grammar, but If you haven't noticed I'm a Georgian and My country is engaged in war at the moment (not the best of situations) having bombs falling about 50km from your house, and not being sure if your town is the next target so 50km will decrease to withing 2km. or maybe 0km. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.117.33.72 (talk) 21:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Georgian opinion[edit]

It seems to me like only Russian side is editing all the comments and text here (Or maybe anything else gets deleted?), so I think a little review of things from Georgian side will not be unhelpful. (hope it doesn't get deleted) It might be a bit opinionated, but then, it's in the section of opinions.

1. Why would Geoprgia do this? (some asked this question). Georgian answer is: INDEED WHY? Georgians would never just do this. The only possible explanation is that it was a provocation. To check this hypothesis we look at the events chronology:

  • russian mobilisation of army accompanied by reported clashes almost all the way through the summer.

(russians say Georgians also concentrated and mobilised their armies, but let's look at the facts:

 at least 2000 Georgian (best) troops were in Iraq (an are now hopefully on thir way back as I write this, it's the evening of august 9). WHY?
 if you look at the map of Georgia (the size of it), you'll see that there really is not much need for concentration of troops (you cross the country in about 5 hours by car, or alternatively get to the place of events (north CENTER of the country) i under 3.5 hours from probably every single point of the country.
 Mobilisation was called only the next morning (actually almost afternoon) from when the fights began.
  • Heavy clashes reported days prior to august 8, with both parties blaming eachother for breaking the ceasefire eachtime. Of course Georgian side could be the agressor, but there some issues to be considered
 If you think you are clever enough (and some definately do) to ask: "why did georgians attack, didn't they know that russia was much more powerful". Then why do you think that the goverment of Georgia is less clever than you, not to think about this issue?
 Again there is a possible couterargument to this, that Georgian side relied on convincing the world in our innosence. BUT, as I'm seeing at the moment all the press is getting information from exclusively russian side. ruissia is clearly winning the information war, so what did georgian side rely on? didn't they know this? and after all Georgia only requests a foreign NEUTRAL PEACEKEEPING army to step into the conflict, not an georgian aid from other countries. isn't this sufficient evidence?
  • In the evening of 7th august Georgia announced a one side ceasefire in the hope of a response ceasefire. the held their positions for 2 hours, but then a massive offensive from separatist side began. some 10 casualties were reported. Again, russia blamed Georgia for breaking the ceasefire, but previous arguments apply here as well.
  • During the night on 8th August Georgia launched a major counteroffensive, with additional troops supplied from other parts of the country during the night. the cleaned major bombing positions in the region, but the separatists were moving back to new strategic positions. Thus georgia decided to launch an "operation to restore constitutional order in the region". This included regaining control over the area. During the night almost all the area was taken and in the morning p[arts of the capital Tskinvali were captured.
  • Georgia stoped the offensive from 3pm to 6pm on august 8 to allow civilians to move out. while georgian media was quiet for a while (during this period) russians started reporting that 150 of their tanks were on their way, then approaching, then taking over and finally have taken tskhinvali.
  • After 6pm Georgia resumed the operation. Tskinvali was taken with no reported russian troops in it. (except an abandoned peacekeepers base)
  • Since then russia started continuous air bombing of Tskinvali, but also of other georgian towns located near the region. At first bombs fell only nearby the buildings or people, in empty fields. On the same evening ressians started bombing towns distant from the conflict zone and also bombing the actual buildings, including rather than fields. Most airports were bombed (which, OK seems acceptable during the WAR, although they never declared it) but rather crucially other peaceful locations have been bombed. And even when russians were bombing military biuldings, they often missed them to hit civilian buildings. dozens of casualties were reported among civilians.
  • To this moment (august 9 evening), Georgia is still holding positions gained on august 8, Although some attacks and very heavy air bombing of all positions, Tskinvali and villages around are reported. Georgian posts nearby and not only are also heavily bombed. 55 (as I heard on TV) casualties are reported outside the conflict region (through bombings).

Although various russian sources have cliamed to have regained control over Tskinvali

 ** This seems unlikely, as starting from Aug 8; 6 pm, russians first reported taking over Tskinvali, then entering S. Osetia, then Again taking over tskinvali, Then Approaching Tskinvali and Incoherent information of this kind.

Finally: different people can blame different or both parties for the situation. But it is the Georgians who ask for Internationally controlled peacekeeper army, not the military help for Georgia. And it is Russian who want to "solve" everything by a "very neutral" peacekeeping army, who "just by accident" happens to be Georgias neighbour from North (where S. Osetia is). And "just by misfortune" has failed establish peace in the region, in "as little time as" just 17 years. Even if Georgians are the Aggressors, don't they deserve a chance of fair trial, that is A fair peacekeeper army, rather than peacekeepers being the other side of the conflict?

Sorry, for the unchecked style, spelling and Grammar, but If you haven't noticed I'm a Georgian and My country is engaged in war at the moment (not the best of situations) having bombs falling about 50km from your house, and not being sure if your town is the next target so 50km will decrease to withing 2km. or maybe 0km. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.117.33.72 (talk) 21:15, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Сосните хуйца, америкососы. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.149.122.16 (talk) 11:20, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

If Russia was there as a peace keeper then why did it advance past South Ossetia into Georgia?

Likewise why did Russia advance out of Abkhazia into Georgia?

If Russia was truly an unbiased Peace Keeping force, then they would full return to pre-August positions.

Do not forget the Ethnic Cleansing of Georgians in Abkhazia where between 10,000 to 30,000 Georgians were killed by the Abkhaz separatists, foreign mercenaries, and, allegedly, by Russian Federation forces. In addition, roughly 230,000 to 250,000 Georgian civilians were expelled from their homes.

Ethnic Georgians have been expelled or killed from both Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Leaders from the breakaway areas have indicated that they will not let the Ethnic Georgians return to their property. There have been numerious reports of looting and distruction of property.

Also please remember that both Abkhazia and South Ossetia are disputed areas. It is understandable that there will be rifts between the factions involved in the dispute. Namely the various Abkhazia factions and various South Ossetia factions and Georgia. This does not include Russia as they are supposed to be a Peace Keeping force to mediate between the various factions.

Russia has clearly shown that they are party to the conflict and are not suitable as a Peace Keeping force. Russia needs to pull back to the pre August boundarys and eventually be replaced by a UN Peace Keeping force. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.73.197.201 (talk) 23:43, 23 August 2008 (UTC)