Comments:US automaker bailout deal fails to pass Senate

Did the Senate do the right thing in rejecting the bailout plan?

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No

No. They didn't. This is just the Republicans trying bust the UAW. It's funny how they want the UAW to take cuts to match workers at the southern NON-UNIONIZED, TAXPAYER SUBSIDIZED auto plants. Yet, the big just want this little bailout subsidy to keep themselves ALIVE. It sickens me. --TUFKAAP (talk) 07:53, 13 December 2008 (UTC) It ain't union busting. The unions are busting the automakers. 206.24.48.1 23:01, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The Climax of the "New Economy"

I think that our government's responses, over the past few months, to this global financial crisis is really an astronomical version of what has been going on for the past couple of decades. That is, the "Powers that Be" blindly worship industries that yield products that are completely intangible and that are at least doubly removed from reality (banks, insurance companies, the stock market, the "derivative market", etc...), while trying as hard as possible to abandon/destroy industries that yield physical products that society needs in order to survive and thrive (manufacturers). They think that the economy can still function if useful physical products are replaced by blackbox entities that don't really exist, and that have a value ambiguously attached (stocks, bonds, subprime mortgages, derivatives, etc...). That approach to the economy simply doesn't work, as demonstrated by recent events. As long as you have a lot of money banks can be replaced. However, manufacturers like the big three Automakers took a century to build its technology, plants, skilled workforce, and business practices. To say that we can easily recover from their collapse, is almost like saying that if the United States of America falls, the difficulties of building a new United States are minimal. Rather than attempt to fix the problem and move forward, it seems that the government and the other "Powers that Be" are making one last desperate attempt to hold on to the failed "New Economy". These "rescues" are only making things worse. With leadership like this, a "Greater Depression" would be the least of our problems. I only hope that this disaster is big enough and public enough for the people to realize what direction the "Powers that Be" are taking society, and that the people peacefully revolt and for the first time in human history take complete control over our destiny and eliminate resistance to progress, before we are sent into another Dark Age. Perhaps it is time for a wikicratic world. Sparky1 (talk) 13:30, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Terminal shortsightedness

Reading the comments elsewhere, such as the BBC's HYS, you will see a strong opinion that the American car makers have brought this on themselves. For decades they have indoctrinated the US car-buying public with some daft notion that anything less than a 3 litre displacement means you're castrated on purchase. Housewives don't need a Hummer to pick up the kids or go to the store, now the public is starting to wake up to that the producers of these gas-guzzlers are up shit creek. Rightly so. For decades they've been told to make more efficient vehicles, and for just as long they've lobbied for exemptions and then made vehicles that got round efficiency legislation.

In some respects you have to laugh. The Project for a New American Century championed by dimwits like Donald Rumsfeld has been an epic failure. They were riding high when their man got the White House, the military adventures have been disasters, and world opinion of the US is at all all-time low. Jobs? Detroit? Most of the world would rather see 100% employment in The Haig prosecuting these criminals. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 16:02, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Senate or UAW at Fault ?

Even if Detroit were to make exactly the same car as a foriegn auto maker located in the US the wage differential would add $2000 to the cost of the vehicle. Not everything put out by Detroit is an SUV. Many US models are comparable to foriegn models just pricier for no more car! PerryO206.24.48.1 22:57, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes

Any argument I make will essentially be identical to the following:

http://jim.com/econ/chap14p1.html

Fephisto (talk) 16:00, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Definately agree this time

All of the above comments hold some very good points. The problem is that these corporations are the same ones that played a major role in the economys current "slum". How much do you pay for a foreign made car versus an american made, and which one will last longer,Get better mileage, and hold its resale value. Its not the big three!! They have been screwing us for years and now we are supposed to hand them millions or even billions of dollars for what! I think if they are to get the money they need to change some things. First american made cars need to be "AMERICAN MADE" again, the thought of giving them that much money so they can take it out of the country won't help anyhow. I recomend they come up with a plan that the whole U.S. can vote on. After all this is the biggest most impacting bail-out we have come upon. This is our chance to stand together and finally be heard and not get SCREWED by the "powers that be" as mentioned earlier.