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The entire sad point was missed by so many. This cartoon is especially offensive when you have a situation where hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and other peoples in this predominately Islamic part of the world were killed. Killed primarily as a result of the criminal and terroristic mass-murdering campaign against the army-less nation of Iraq some call a "war". This invasion was justified supposedly to destroy, ironically, Saddams weapons of mass-destruction. Speaking of free speech we have the Iraqi university professors shot dead on the streets for speaking out; human rights activists and reporters shot dead or hooded and taken away for torture sessions all because of their free speech --free speech used to form unions or get drinkable water or to decry the occupation of their country. And we have the never ending mistreatment and displacement of people from their homes and land into concentration camps in Palestine. Then it's in this setting we have a cartoon defaming one of the most revered prophets of Islam, second only to Jesus Christ. As if it is the Islamic people that are being the extremists with bombs. The cartoon was profoundly destructive, possibly even constituting an act of terror on these poor people. It certainly wasn't funny to anyone with even a shred of morals or ethics to their being.
I am very Christian and very Western in my viewpoints. I grew up very white-middle-class. I'm very pro two-state-solution regarding Palestine and Israel.
I very much care about others in the world, no matter how different they may be from me. We are all each others keepers. We are family. Let's stop this extremist mistreatment of people; of each other. If the people in Iraq were Jews the the USA was cluster bombing and using white phosphorus on and we depicted an important Jewish person in such a defamatory way as was done in the Danish cartoon there would be a global condemnation by Jews everywhere. You could never get by with using the word Jewist to describe acts of military aggression by Jews nor Jewofascist to describe the acts of the state of Israel. Yet major media and even world leaders use the words Islamist and islamofacist as if it is acceptable. It is not acceptable and not well thought out and not worthy of use by any decent person.
The Danes should make more of an effort to apologize for this cartoon. It is infantile and massively hurtful. We could have done very well without it. But yet still as horrible as it was we must all remember violence is not the solution. Let's work really hard to put ourselves in other peoples shoes and treat them with very great dignity. We all deserve such treatment. Although to call this infantile thoughtless cartoon free speech is ridiculous.
In the UK and USA we have condemned use of the "N word". It is hurtful to African origin people. We just say no to it's usage because our fellow citizens are more important to us than complete reckless infantile free speech. In Austria they have chosen to imprison people merely for questioning the holocaust. I certainly don't agree with the questioners but I think imprisoning them is a crime too.
I doubt there are many especially Christian towns in the USA that would let go a depiction of Jesus Christ in a defamatory way. Many would consider resorting to physical violence and most certainly the newspaper running such a cartoon would have a very hard time selling copies again. After reading this Danish newspaper I think they should spend more time researching and reporting actual truthful articles. They seem to be very anti-Arabic in general and what they call free speech is really largely just deceptions . Free press and free speech in general should end up uncovering deceptions and lies not be used for the purpose of deceiving people.
Our goal should be to come together in love and harmony... a clean world without pollution and without war.
Alas when I am angry at someone for doing something horrible I often just sit and think how awful it would be to be them. Resorting to violence is not the answer.
However it must be remembered that words can hurt people especially in situations like this where it is not just the cartoon but "the West" cluster bombing and burning Iraqis alive with white phosphorus filling torture centers with their citizenry etc. Then we come up with a cartoon of their holy prophet with a bomb in place of his turban. That is as if to say it is the Islamic people who are the violent ones.
What we do to Iraq and do to the Palestinians is terrorism on a grand scale what they do back to us is very much less in comparison. To force one into their shoes let's say we placed the country of England where Palestine was and forced all the English into concentration camps and strip searched them at the corners of the English streets and built housing settlements all over England bulldozing English farms, houses, and buildings... let's say you did this starting on a Tuesday. I assure you there would be no buses; bus-stops; coffee houses; pizza shops or really anything left by the following Thursday.
Yet we say it is horrible for them to dare retaliate. That they are the terrorists. This is all contrary to reality.
International peace and love and harmony are all possible but not built upon a foundation of disregard, disrespect and hatred.
Nothing in your post below is correct. The vast majority of deaths in Iraq are the direct result of actions by the USA and the UK(the so-called coalition.) Much of the strife between people in Iraq was carefully been promoted through the actions of this coalition as they have even, dressed in Arabic garb,and planted car bombs(even caught by Iraqi police forces several times). But all that aside Johns Hopkins and other accounts now prove that over 800,000 deaths in Iraq are the direct result of, again, coalition(USA and UK) actions. Many well founded accounts now put the deaths from the invasion and occupation at over 2.5 million. You missed the point of my article entirely as perhaps you intended. Please next time write your message on a separate comment form for both our sakes.
Although there is no danger of people praying to Jesus(the carving) on the cross it is the primary reason for protestant Christian denominations to not have his figure on the cross... it is believed to be a form of idolatry which is expressly forbidden in the Christian religion. The cartoon was offensive to the Islamic people because it is offensive and wicked to depict their holy figure in such a horrible way. The so called "Piss Christ" art work, you referred to, was an act showing the artist's reverence of Jesus Christ and in so doing making a statement against what some aspects of our society have done by twisting the message of the Messiah around and also the general misuse of that message. It was in no way whatsoever intended as a defamation of Jesus. She was saying, "Look this is what you are doing to Jesus!".
And by the way the word antisemite means to be against a person speaking a Semitic language as his native language. Arabs are full-blown Semites and therefore cannot by definition be antisemites. Any definition which twists antisemite into being against someone who is Jewish or Zionist is false by definition.
And to be against the state of Israel is the passion of many Orthodox Jews who consider it's present existence blasphemy (as did the vast majority of Rabbis worldwide at the time of Israel's beginning-- they insisted it be called a partition of Palestine and not Israel--It was the militant leaders of the Zionists that insisted on calling it Israel.) and the Orthodox Jews even went so far as to say that, "the Zionists are incapable of anything but evil". I know Orthodox Jews and they are such wonderful people as are Arabs I have known. But I also know great Israelis, truly good people. My personal belief is the state of Israel is so lets try to work something out. There are plenty of good people that are part of Israel and they are the ones who should be in charge. But promoting Israel's existence by bulldozing farms and houses and buildings will lead to only Israel's eventual demise. Jews that live in neighboring towns to Palestinian areas have often gotten along very well as brothers with their supposed enemies. We can have a two state solution within the 68 green line boundaries with full compensation to Palestinians tomorrow. The forces of good on both sides must some how come together to make it happen.
The entire nation of Iraq was destroyed by the horrific terroristic assault of the USA and UK (and no I do not blame the vast majority of the people of the UK or USA or even those in the military) --whether the Bush and Blair administrations did it for "international zionism" as you say or "big oil" or the most likely of all just so they could steal trillions of dollars from the US treasury is beside the point. We, the west and Israel are collectively responsible for far more mass-murder and misery than anything the Arabs have ever done. And to say the little they do in return is unwarranted is ridiculous. My point is that we all must stop this. We must stop all such warring. The Neocons preach that war must and will go on and on forever without end (The neocons also preached to the defense industrial complex people that they'd add at least 100 billion a year to the defense budget even just as Bush was entering office--They did that and much more.). I say we have come to a point in world history if we don't stop such hatred whether through cartoons or cluster bombs then we stand a very good chance of losing everything utterly.
(this amendment to my above article is referring to the post below by Etafly)
The cartoons were apt, and the reaction (protests) was unwarranted. These arrests show just why they're apt. The masses of people protesting the cartoons were misled about them anyway. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was a crock of shit and I'm no fan of U.S. foreign policy, but the vast number of deaths that occurred (and are still occurring) in Iraq are not at the hands of Americans, but the hands of Muslims. Muslims killing Muslims. You need to understand that cultural relativism is total shit. Recall this.. Pope mentions a violent history in Islam, Muslims respond by burning churches and murdering nuns. Recall w: Theo Van Gogh (film director). Recall w: Salman Rushdie. Recall w: Ayaan Hirsi Ali. The majority of the Muslim world is at odds with western culture. Irreconcilably so. Forget about free speech and womens' rights, hell, forget about human rights. The Danish cartoons made an astonishingly valid point, in a time where growing Muslim immigrant populations are calling for Sharia Law in the U.K. and EU. And are you aware that the vast majority of protesters didn't even see the drawings? The reason that depictions of Muhammad were forbidden (Not by the Quran, mind you) was to prevent a recurrence in idol worship. Tell me, is there a danger of people praying to these drawings? The fact of the matter is that many of the aspects fundamental to western society are offensive to Muslim sensibilities. Do you wish for all women to be veiled so that they aren't offended? Of course not. To stifle free speech, free press, et cetera, is to acquiesce in much the same manner. The drawings were a critique on Islamic extremism (Bomb on Muhammad's head illustrated how Jihadis use Islam and the teachings of Muhammad to justify violence, and possibly illustrates the gap between extremist muslims and moderate muslims) and artistically valid. And please, look at w: Piss Christ. If Andres Serrano had done a 'Piss Quran', you can bet that fatwas on his life, and anyone's relating to the work, would be issued by Muslim spiritual leaders galore. Now, the Pope didn't call for Serrano's death. Four centuries ago? Maybe he would have. Put things into perspective, please. Also, don't get sucked into the global Zionist conspiracy idiocy. The question of Israel for the arab people must not be whether or not it should exist, but simply how to move on and learn to live with it because it's there to stay. Arab states use the issue to divert its own people's attention from state corruption, abuses, etc, securing regime permanency. Not that anti-zionism is equal to antisemitism (and believe me, the latter is almost utterly ubiquitous in the arab world), but it essentially serves the same political function as antisemitism did in prewar Germany. No reason for you to buy into it JamesW. Cheers. -Etafly - (talk) 01:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I'll not bother commenting on the obvious idiocy claiming that militants are US troops in disguise. I will instead point out this line "Then it's in this setting we have a cartoon defaming one of the most revered prophets of Islam, second only to Jesus Christ." I think you must be talking about the wrong religion, it goes the other way around. I also don't see Etafly blaming the war on "international zionism" Get your facts straight James. 220.127.116.11 16:09, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
Etafly now you talk about yourself in the third person..By the way US troops are militants by definition. Yes it has become public knowledge(all major wire services have carried stories of UK and US troops caught dressed as Arabs to conduct faked operations trying essentially to divide and conquer the Iraqis by pitting one group against the other) that UK and US troops disguise themselves as Arabs and commit car bombings in Iraq with some frequency. And if you truly are a "former Muslim" you would certainly know that Jesus Christ is the most revered prophet of Islam. I am a devout Christian and I know that much for certain.
I did no such thing. That wasn't me in the above reply. And you're quite wrong about Islam placing Jesus above Muhammad with respect to reverence. You've deluded yourself into thinking so in order for you to justify your irrational support for Muslims as innocent victims of a global conspiracy against them. Muhammad is obviously considered the final and most important prophet of Islam, whose coming was foretold by Jesus. If you went into the middle of an Islamic state and shouted "Jesus is greater than Muhammad!" and enough people heard you, I can assure you that you would be imprisoned on charges of blasphemy (at best). You really need to educate yourself before you make these claims with any certainty. You really don't know what the hell you're talking about and what the hell you're defending. Learn enough about Islam and you'll find yourself questioning exactly what it was you were defending (That is, if you're a thinking, rational person, and I have my doubts). I find it interesting that you think you know more about my old religion and culture than I do. In short, think before you write. Also, your paranoia is troubling. You should probably consider seeking help. -Etafly - (talk) 23:50, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
I am Christian and I do not believe you are or ever were Muslim. I am not interested in promoting anything other than the truth and I have only stated the truth. All you have done so far is not say the truth for whatever motivations you have. I also have had the fortune of having known many devout Muslims all of whom told me that Jesus was and is considered to be the Greatest Prophet by them. I've always found that very interesting. I only know what they have told me and what I have read. You clearly hate Arabs and Muslims and believe all that was done to them is justified and they are the ones who are truly guilty anyway. I completely disagree with you Etafly not because of some made up propaganda like you have weaved but because of the truth.
Muslims also believe that Jesus was the Messiah, but they do not believe that he was the son of God. Muslims believe that God would not have allowed the Messiah to die at the hands of human beings -- hence they believe he survived the execution and ascended to heaven. As such, both Christians and Muslims believe that Jesus was raised up to God, but Christians believe that Jesus was raised from the dead, or resurrected prior. Muslims also share the belief with Christians in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ.
Jews do not believe in the existence of Jesus although some believe he was a religious teacher --Jews expressly do not believe Jesus was the Messiah, a Prophet or anything for that matter. Jews also do not believe that Mohammad was a Prophet. Jew was not even used as a word until the 13th century AD. The original word was Judah. I thought that was interesting too.
I no longer wish to discourse with you as there is no point. I wish you would start your own comment article and explain in depth why the Arabs are so wrong and evil or whatever you wish about the source article or other articles you might wish to discuss. Remember though, my point is not to assign guilt but to spread my realization that most people on all sides of these issues are basically good and that we must stop this pathway of warring on each other. You see it is not the USA that is doing this it is the handful of people we give too much power to most everyone else is a basically good person in my view. I will not say anything more to you and request that you not write on my comment sheet anymore. Although I do appreciate our exchanges to this point and wish you well. Come up with your own comment article and your very own title-- or not bother. James
I am a muslim and i want to say that what the newspapers of denmarks are doing there are invinting the voilence in there country because you knows thar we love are prophet than any thing else we are condemn peace fully that stop this kind of acting because this kind of things create voilence and dont want voilence so should cleand this cartoons from your website's page as well because if you u want to say any thing on islam u can say but if u are insulting and misbeahaving the relegious persons so its not the freedom of speech so i am condemn it and please remove this cartoon page from your site as well by —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 14:03, 11 March 2008 (UTC)