Comments:Ukrainian manufacturer preparing to sell Adolf Hitler dolls
Correction — May 3, 2008
This article has been retracted. This article has been deemed a hoax. Please see the follow up article, Hitler doll story found to be hoaxed, for more information.
This page is for commentary on the news. If you wish to point out a problem in the article (e.g. factual error, etc), please use its regular collaboration page instead. Comments on this page do not need to adhere to the Neutral Point of View policy. You should sign your comments by adding ~~~~ to the end of your message. Please remain on topic. Though there are very few rules governing what can be said here, civil discussion and polite sparring make our comments pages a fun and friendly place. Please think of this when posting.
Quick hints for new commentators:
- Use colons to indent a response to someone else's remarks
- Always sign your comments by putting --~~~~ at the end
- You can edit a section by using the edit link to the right of the section heading
Offensive and possibly illegal comment removed
- What's the policy on comments like this? Are we allowed to delete them? Wikidsoup - (talk) 19:52, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- As it is possible the comment could be illegal I have removed it.--A101 - (talk) 19:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- The servers are in a country that actually has free speech so it is not illegal. But it is an offensive comment that can and should be removed from Wikinews. --SVTCobra 19:56, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- Germany allegedly has free speech, that comment is illegal there. So does the UK, and I think it is illlegal there.--A101 - (talk) 20:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- Would it be illegal in the UK? It isn't inciting racial hatred, just an opinion. Although you were absolutely right in removing the offensive comment in the first place. Harris Morgan - (talk) 20:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC).
- It doesn't really matter whether it is illegal as everyone agrees it should be deleted. --A101 - (talk) 20:05, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- Absolutely. Harris Morgan - (talk) 20:07, 24 April 2008 (UTC).
- Would it be illegal in the UK? It isn't inciting racial hatred, just an opinion. Although you were absolutely right in removing the offensive comment in the first place. Harris Morgan - (talk) 20:03, 24 April 2008 (UTC).
- Germany allegedly has free speech, that comment is illegal there. So does the UK, and I think it is illlegal there.--A101 - (talk) 20:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- The servers are in a country that actually has free speech so it is not illegal. But it is an offensive comment that can and should be removed from Wikinews. --SVTCobra 19:56, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- As it is possible the comment could be illegal I have removed it.--A101 - (talk) 19:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
- Seeing as how the Commentary template notes that Offensive material should be refrained from, it seems fine to me, although it's not over the top. But I will admit, Germany and the UK are known for their stringent hate speech laws, so whatever. Majority rules. --TUFKAAP - (talk) 21:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
Repulsive
[edit]My (non-relation) great uncle was detained by the Nazis in a concentration camp in Ukraine. For a company to brand this horrific man as something that children can play with and to say they may release toy gas chambers and concentration camps is utterly repulsive to me. Harris Morgan - (talk) 20:00, 24 April 2008 (UTC).
- Probably an adult collectable, not a child's toy 76.64.162.151 00:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
Nonsense.
[edit]This is either a hoax or just poor journalism. A "journalist" has been fooled by the rantings of an irrelevant salesperson shooting off at the mouth. Working gas chambers? Please....if that didn't ring alarm bells there's no hope for anyone.
This "story" has been spun out of thin air. If the doll itself exists at all it's just a militaria-style product aimed at adult military collectors. You can buy Hitler dolls online, just as you can buy Darth Vader and Bruce Lee dolls. It's not radical or dangerous and doesn't make you a Sith Lord....just a bit geeky. The journalist has simply tacked on an extra bit about how racist and xenophobic the Ukrainians are and has probably asked the woman (who is just a person who works in a shop) if they might make working gas chambers...oh yes...and added the word "chilling" to the report. But seriously, forget about all the concentration camp stuff...if the shop assistant even said it, she's either making it up or has been prompted or mistranslated. Working gas chambers indeed, I can't believe anyone is taking it seriously...especially from the BBC.
- The Daily Heil... err Mail article has pictures you know... --TUFKAAP - (talk) 21:58, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
yep I saw it, which is why I suspected it was just a bog-standard collector piece... and in fact here is the exact doll available for sale http://www.pzg.biz/figures.htm and http://www.pzg.biz/figure_hitler.htm just as I thought, part of a militaria collection (for ADULTS) and that site appears to be from the US (made by a company called DiD figures). I really don't see how the sales assistant in that one shop in Kiev has any knowledge that can help her speculate about the company's desire to make concentration camps and working gas chambers...working? What, with a little butane cannister so you can gas your pet gerbils? It's so flagrantly fantasical and depraved I can't understand how anyone could entertain the idea for three seconds. This is a non-story and someone needs a slapping for allowing it to exist. It's obviously the emotive nature of the subject that makes people switch off their logic and start getting angry and offended before realising it can't possibly be true.
This is the "Ukrainian manufacturer" that made the Hitler doll: http://www.onlinedid.com/ (What a surprise, they are NOT Ukrainian, they are in Hong Kong. DiD Corporation = Dragon in Dream.
I call shenanigans
[edit]Look here: http://www.wps.ru/en/services/foreig...ine/press.html This is a list of print media in Ukraine, I don't know if it's comprehensive, but it lists even local press.
There is no "Zerkalo tizhden".
Furthermore, "zerkalo" means "mirror" and "tizhden" means "week", but "zerkalo tizhden" means "mirror week", it's ungrammatical. It should be "Zerkalo tizhdnia" like in the title of existing publication "Visti tizhdnia" (News of the week).
What speaks against this theory is that the Ukrainian news agency Unian is also reporting this, citing DPA: http://www.unian.net/eng/news/news-247645.html They should know instantly if it's true or not. But maybe they are a part of it? Why other Ukrainian agencies: http://www.ukranews.com/eng/ http://www.interfax.com.ua/en/ http://www.ukrinform.com/eng/ did not pick it up?
[I posted this comment previously at http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=13640521&postcount=41] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.177.210.80 (talk) 09:59, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
- I wouldn't be surprised. It does sound dubious. Any sources that say this was definitely a hoax? --SVTCobra 02:14, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
- The evidence is pretty damning thus far. However, at DiD's WW2 product list I can't find Hitler. Do we perhaps publish something suggesting the story is in doubt without actually being disproved? Blood Red Sandman (Talk) (Contribs) 11:40, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I also couldn't find him on their product list. This merchant site: http://www.packrat-toyz.com/did%20action_figures.htm also lists the Hitler doll as part of the DiD collection and it's certainly the same doll. Perhaps it's best to remove the "Ukrainian Manufacturer" and also mention the doll being available on the Internet aimed at the militaria collector market, not children. If it is a DiD figure (judging by the style of their other figures it's highly probable) I think it's clear that DiD are not the kind of company who would have any interest in making working gas chamber models (I guess someone could email them and ask them!). ...again, the biggest clue to whole nonsense of this story is the word "working".
The truth of this story is that a widely available collector doll of Hitler, part of a large range of dolls - action, military, film,samurai, fantasy, etc.) is going to go on sale in the Ukraine where until now images, etc., of Hitler were/are prohibited.
What sort of sick person makes an Adolph Hitler doll for children to play with? This is by far the most disturbing piece of news I have heard in a very long time. What's next? A spring line of Pol Pot brand designer jeans? Maybe a McDonald's Happy Meal featuring your favourite characters from Disney's Genocide on Ice tour? --87.88.125.94 19:56, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Nice piece of sensational news
[edit]Hey, this is a nice piece of sensational news born from practically nothing and, unfortunately, spread in the West by several "serious" British newspapers. I've heard about this classical story of political propaganda from a friend of mine who lives in Ukraine.
The source, Ukrainian newspaper "Zerkalo Tyzhnya" (Mirror Weekly) published an almost humorous article about the Hitler doll their man found in a rarities and collectibles section of a supermarket in Kyiv. The doll, according to "Zerkalo Tyzhnya", was made in Taiwan (that explains the price which, as many readers have noticed, could not be possibly charged on a mass market of such a realtively poor country as Ukraine). If you can read Ukrainian, here's the link: http://www.dt.ua/1000/1550/62775/
The next phase of the news "evolution" was staged by Russian mass media, who obviously don't like contemporary Ukraine pro-Western orientation. They upscaled the story, made it dead serious and tied it nicely to anti-Russian sentiments on the part of many Ukrainians, as well as to other topical things on Russian political agenda. They reported that the doll is extremely popular in Ukraine, and that there were lineups in the stores despite the very high price (if you understand Russian, here's a Russian TV video on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-GJyPykSc4&feature=related). Note: in that particular video they say that the toy was made in China. Also note that was no sign of any lineup in the store :-)
The other "detail" followed: the doll is now manifactured in Ukraine and is going to be on sale in mass quantities in summer.
I guess the entire story was supplied to the UK from Moscow. Not sure whether the BBC News correspondent who made this video was the first: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-GJyPykSc4&feature=related (this is in English, but note that the store footage is the same, from that Russian video).
I wonder if it was ever shown on BBC News. I hope not, as I could not find any reference to it on the BBC website.
OK, enough said - but if you want to hear some stronger expressions, follow, for example, this link: http://trance.nu/v4/forum/viewtopic.php?t=153564 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.233.174.251 (talk) 03:04, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
THE TRUTH ABOUT HITLER DOLL IN UKRAINE
[edit]HOW NORTHERN BROTHERS DESTROY UKRAINE and WHO and WHY helps them?
Lately ORT (Public Russian Television) presented a story, adding one more link to the chain of typical for the recent Russian news headlines. Vitaliy Kadchenko, ORT’s reporter in Kyiv, Ukraine, sharply and abruptly described the “reality” of a city, captivated by some inexistent fascists.
“As appears that Hitler puppets are a very saleable merchandise here. The doll is wrapped up in a beautiful package – and it is a top spring merchandise in Kyiv” – says the “unbiased and honest” Russian journalist.
The toys are 40 cm tall (produced in China) and each doll is priced at $250. Adolph has 3 suites, a cap; and has a movable jaw. The filming was perfect – black presentation box, golden numbers, and nice set of accessories – boots, leather coat with a bandage, black glasses “a la John Lennon”. A Hollywood blockbuster, in other words!
As one of the viewers said “it’s simply a set of toy dishes, Russian-speaking toy-toddlers and the recipe how to make a soup out of them”
It is more than APPARENT that Russian TV channels went back to early seventies – because even the most prejudiced Ukrainian media looks like British BBC when compared to Russian Television.
But BBC itself acted more then surprisingly. On the 22nd of April the company broadcasted a news report on Hitler-doll. Everything to the tiniest fragment was dubbed and mimicked from the Russian version: the camera perspective of the “Nazi-toy”, a worried voice of the reporter, and even the “expert’s” text, who’s usually getting his “generous” gratuity from the ignorant readers, submitting articles about historical unproven stories to one of Ukrainian papers.
In the BBC report, Jane Hadden starts the report with words “Could this really become the new must-have toy for the children of Ukraine?”
We, of course, will not cavil at every of the hundreds of mistakes in the plot, for example, reporter’s alignment of a small Souvenir Shop in the Mall (“Globe”) selling expensive trinkets and a normal toy store.
Or – how many Ukrainians can afford to buy such a “nazi-foofraw”. They would probably have to cut their budget by 90% to buy it. What would they eat then?
The Video-sequence is very impressive – the dissolve of Hitler’s face into the background picture of Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs or the bell tower of St. Sophia cathedral. As they say, “mute the TV and try to guess what the story is about”. The cases of mindless copying of somebody else’s reportage are not rare in the industry – slackers-reporters can be found in any country.
A doll in the souvenir shop is an ABSURD, which should have received proper response from local law enforcement authority. Nothing more. Although one shouldn’t see Ukraine as an exception.
If you search the popular online "EBAY" auction for “Hitler”, the query will instantly populate 1799 different offers – post stamps, coins, postcards, magazines, silhouettes, sculptures, gift issues of “Mein Kampf” from 1940 in the mint condition! HALLLOOOOOOOOOOOO?!!!!!!!
And this is just what could be seen on the surface – a shadow European market of Nazi attributes is prospering. Did British prince William make the suit on his own when he arrived to the party in the Nazi dress?
Mass Russian ANTI-UKRAINIAN campaign aiming to disparage and vilify Ukraine in the world’s eyes is fast on its way.
Its purpose is to raise social hostility both within Ukraine and abroad, in order to force the Stalinist propaganda against the weak attempts to reconcile Ukrainians. Just to be able to attack from all sides and angles.
The top idea is probably to draw the EP’s attention to the danger of Nazism in Ukraine. Russia is now squeamish about the means – starting from Yushchenko personification-nazification and going all the way through to the hidden cameras.
Russians expect the hardest blow on May 9th, but so far it’s just the artillery preparation. And the British broadcaster mindlessly plays into Russians’ hand, assisting Russian imperial policy. It is again one of those cases when Ukraine is judged and seen through the eyes of its neighbor’s propaganda.
And it will last until Ukrainians become the source themselves. Somehow BBC doesn’t show the reality of Poland or Hungary using Russian media reports and video sequences, or I am mistaken???
Is that just a journalist’s and editor’s incompetence which has to be immediately disproved followed by a public apology or it is a propaganda to assist the splitting of the country to throw a weak democracy back in the abyss?
UKIE Wednesday, April 30, 2008 (www.pravda.com.ua)
==
This is a hoax, copied from Russian news agency. BBC and Telegraph pulled the story down, you should do it too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.78.222.221 (talk) 21:17, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Thats just Wack
[edit]Ican't belive any company would make such a thing, what's next Bin Laden dolls, Saddam dolls?--Ryan524 - (talk) 22:23, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
What happened to your BBC reference? What about the Telegraph one? And please do not call your website WIKINEWS, you do not publish news, you publish somebody's reports, so call it accordingly - WIKIRUMORSBASEDONSOMESOURCESWHICHWEARENOTSUREABOUT.ORG. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.138.221.154 (talk) 00:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
- FYI alot of news sites just use what the AP writes, we at least rewrite the news in our own words then release it under an open license. As for the BBC refrence, we have no coltrol over what they do, they took their article down.-Ryan524 - (talk) 02:50, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Same doll is already on sale in UK and USA.
[edit]Same doll is already on sale in UK and USA.
Why we didn't see news on BBC covering this?
Links:
UK : http://www.modellersloft.co.uk/showitem.ihtml?id=22831 USA: http://www.pzg.biz/figure_hitler.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.1.116.144 (talk) 10:43, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
Retract, now!
[edit]Why is this story STILL AVAILABLE as is??
The source information on which the article is based is inaccurate anti-Ukrainian propaganda.
The doll is manufactured in Taiwan, not Ukraine.
The exact same Taiwanese doll is for sale in the UK (http://www.modellersloft.co.uk/showitem.ihtml?id=22831) and the USA (http://www.pzg.biz/figure_hitler.htm).
Detailed information about how this story became propaganda is posted by the Kharkiv Human Rights Protection Group (http://www.khpg.org/en/index.php?id=1209570049) and a more detailed analysis by the Ukrainian Archive (http://www.ukar.ca/shevchenko/buzyna/hitler.html).
This "story" has already been retracted by the BBC, the Daily Telegraph and most recently by The Philadelphia Trumpet (http://thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=5109.3384.0.0).
Please do the right thing and retract the story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.200.7.104 (talk) 16:17, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- Aren't there supposedly a lot of antisemites in Ukraine? Maybe that's why this news report claimed it was an Ukrainian manufacturer. 204.52.215.107 22:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
ильно и опровергните эту историю. —Предыдущий неподписанный комментарий добавлен 90.200.7.104 (talk) 16:17, 3 мая 2008 (UTC)[ответ]
- Разве в Украине якобы не много антисеми