User talk:Davodd/archive1

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"I noticed you removed sources you labeled as "subscription" from one of the articles. They were not subscription, per se, but allowed free access if a user registers - at no cost - with the site"

yes thanks for pointing that out, they require registration which is an irritating stumbling block for many readers - i would prefer that we use truly open accessible sources, there are many available for this story, if you insist on using one please indicate that registration is required as a courtesy for users. Onymous 81.217.21.244 09:40, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC) (chat later)


dear davodd. Why do you object to Use of Wikinews articles creates deletion chaos? I think it importasnt people read it so they don't start deleting legitimate articles Squeakfox 19:50, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Writing, rather than editing[edit]

I agree with you — we need to add new articles rather than edit to death the existing ones. At the same time, as this project is still under development, part of what we are reasonable at doing so far is trying to provide a one-stop page for the current state of the tsunami crisis. Indeed, if you search around you will find quite a few people praising our (and Wikipedia's) coverage of this disaster: note that very few news organizations provide a current snapshot of current events.

That does not excuse our lack of separate followup articles, but the prognosis is not nearly as bad as you make it be. With just over 200 articles written on this site, it's not surprising that we're still far from becoming a viable news source. Yet it's by attacking these issues head-on with optimism that we will get things fixed. -- IlyaHaykinson 03:05, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I also agree that Wikinews could benefit from your writing skills if you are willing to contribute. Why not show us how it's done? In my day job I enjoy learning from more experienced contributors, so I would certainly appreciate being able to learn from a more talented writer here on Wikinews.

If there is anything I can do to help remove the barriers that are preventing you from becoming a contributor in the main article space, please let me know.

Regards,

DV 03:43, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"groupthink and journalism are rarely compatible"[edit]

What do you think of working in user pages, as a sandbox, for new articles? I previously suggested that this could work for writing opinion columns, but perhaps news stories could be developed this way as well?

Editors tend to leave user pages alone, so perhaps that space could be used to avoid groupthink while an article is being developed? — DV 04:14, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Journalistic standard[edit]

Could you recommend an online source or a book that I could use to educate myself about the journalistic standard you think would be acceptable for us to follow here on Wikinews?

Developing a writing style that conforms to this standard won't happen overnight, but I'm at least willing to try if you will provide some specific guidance.

I refer to my copy of the Chicago Manual of Style from time to time, which covers bookmaking, style, production and printing, but perhaps you could point me to other references that are more specific to news writing? — DV 04:25, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

One or two examples?[edit]

Before you shoo me away to take night classes at a journalism school, could you please provide some specific examples to help me improve my writing style enough to at least be passable?

Even if you can only provide some very brief comments, I would be grateful if you could provide a comparison of two news articles of your choice, written at different levels of quality, on the same topic, to illustrate the difference between poor and excellent news writing. Since I probably won't recognize all of the differences that make one excellent and the other poor, anything you could point out would be helpful.

Thanks again for your constructive feedback on Wikinews. I'm glad to hear you plan to contribute in the main article space at some point.

DV 10:22, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the tips[edit]

The links to the Guardian and AP stylebooks, and the article comparison, were all helpful. (Too bad the AP wants money for theirs, the Guardian is gracious to supply theirs free of charge.)

Also, your advice to use shorter sentences, active voice, and the occassional one-sentence paragraph, seems obvious, but it is easy to forget and revert to writing in a more ponderous style.

It is difficult to objectively edit one's own writing without taking the time to walk away from it and come back to it with a fresh perspective. Professionals have editors to review and improve their work, while we have random editors who are usually only motivated enough to insert new factual tidbits here and there.

Despite these odds, I still find the challenge of working on Wikinews to be worthwhile, so I hope you will continue to provide constructive feedback to address the issues that are affecting the viability of this project.

Regards,

DV 04:06, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Stylebook[edit]

Davodd, thanks for working on the stylebook. But to reduce duplication of similar information, you might want to either merge or somehow integrate with Wikinews:Style_guide and Wikinews:Content guide. -- IlyaHaykinson 01:08, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I also appreciate the great work you've done to compile a stylebook. I will keep it nearby when I edit articles in the future. — DV 03:38, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami[edit]

Please see the history of this article, and revisit. This should not have been placed on Dr. I would like to see it return to the main page, but not with the Dr on it, since it is designed as a project page. - Amgine 20:51, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I disagree. The additional anon edits are the single paste and then two sentences re-written several times. Using non-main-namespace is not really an option, I think. If it is allowed at all (I don't know if they've set up thos namespaces), it will not be searched by the search function. Rather defeats the purpose. Do you use IRC? - Amgine 22:08, 1 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion Proposal[edit]

Thanks for the heads-up. The DB was being sorta weird earlier this afternoon. I've RV-ed my own edit, it should be ok now. Lankiveil 08:35, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC).

Use of IRC to set Wikinews policy[edit]

I replied to your comments on IRC over on the water cooler.

I share your concern about this issue.

Regards,

DV 03:38, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks -- Davodd | Talk 05:49, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Re:Tsuhami Help in Media[edit]

Hi. I'm wondering if the suggestion I made would look like acceptable for you regarding the media coverage page. Would you take a look at Wikinews:Deletion_requests#Tsunami_Help.2FTsunami_Blog_In_The_Media?

Thanks, Tomos 04:18, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

PS The Trio article looks very meaty and very well-written. I'm glad to see someone who can write that being part of Wikinews. :)

Reply is on Tomos' talk page. -- Davodd | Talk 05:16, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I didn't forget...[edit]

You asked about building a basic local bureau branch page... I'd be happy to talk with you about this.

I'm assuming this will actually be a working space for contributors from a specific local beat. What are the tools you would be interested in having available there? Here's my brief list:

  • Stories under development
  • Story assignments
  • Local resources for contributors
  • Wikinews resources for contributors
  • A box for recognizing story successes
  • A cubie graffiti wall or shoutbox, for letting off steam/goofing off.

Does this sound like what you were looking for or am I way off? - Amgine 06:58, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

More ideas on main page layout[edit]

Hi Davodd,

I noticed you had commented on one of the versions of the main page sandbox, where some ideas for improving the main page are being tried out.

If you haven't looked at the most recent versions, please see the small version and the large version. They're a pair that link to each other via the monitor icons at the top of the navigation bar. Shanforest and Ilya have both started discussions on each version's talk page, here and here.

Regards,

DV 15:10, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Uhm... Community page[edit]

You may want to see User:Amgine/Sandbox2 - Amgine 06:32, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Okay, I'm done there. What would you like my help with? - Amgine 07:29, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)
<nod> Dead links bad. The only one which is a worry is the User:Amgine/Sandbox2 one, since I have hopes that this layout will be accepted for the Wikinews:Water cooler. - Amgine 07:34, 4 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Logo ideas[edit]

Hi Davodd,

What format did you create your Wikinews logo design in? (I'm referring to the "N" version inspired by Brevity's pipe design.)

Would you mind e-mailing me the source file so I could play around with some alternative ideas?

Regards,

DV 04:43, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, that's good enough to trace the outline. — DV 05:33, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Water cooler improvements[edit]

Sounds great! Can you direct me to an example of the Backpage so I can learn how to do that? - Amgine 17:40, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I understand the concept, now how do I use it? {{BACKPAGE}}? - Amgine 18:07, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
No insult, just confused, but I think I may have figured it out... What skin are you using? - Amgine 22:33, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Okay, so I didn't figure it out. What do you do which uses the BACK PAGE function? - Amgine 22:47, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)
All this time I've been looking in the body, not the header! <blush> - Amgine 02:29, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Wikinewsies? <considers this>... In the meantime, on other mediawiki installations (such as Tsunami Help's new site) the {{BACKPAGE}} function is not in the standard distribution. Is this a part of the system message? - ~~~~

Something to be aware of[edit]

http://news.com.com/Open-sourcing+the+news/2008-1025_3-5515166.html - Jimbo Wales discussing Wikinews. Expect traffic.

Also, many IP anons do not have stable IP numbers. Everytime they visit it's a new IP. Probably better to wait until they've logged in to welcome them, since their IP might next be assigned to someone who has never been to Wikinews. - Amgine 19:12, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

<grumble> Wish I had your sources. I was just surprised with it.
I wasn't aware of the redlink policy on Wikipedia. <considers> I suspect on Wikinews we should restrict that a bit, since we're much more likely to attract casual contributors. But then, we're also more likely to attract news junkies... so I don't know where I stand on that policy. - Amgine 19:31, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Which is *exactly* why I wrote the "How is policy made?" section the way I did - Wikinews:Policies and guidelines - Amgine

Hello[edit]

As you seem to be one of the major driving forces behind WN right now, I feel I should explain my reasoning behind my numerous edits today. Have a read of my userpage to see my thinking behind the changes. Feel free to leave any criticism on my talk page! Dan100 00:58, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Editor tasks[edit]

Thanks for setting me straight on the purpose of Editor tasks, I hadn't quite grasped the difference in purpose. I think the changes to the workspace have clarified things immensely! Dan100 10:37, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Criminal charges filed in Nov. 19 NBA brawl deletion request[edit]

As my first contribution to this site, I finished this article. I was not sure if I could delete your deletion request or not, so figured I would ask here. Thanks. Ace 17:32, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Category:Continents query[edit]

I replied to your question at User_talk:IlyaHaykinson#Category:Continents query -- IlyaHaykinson 23:31, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It appears I still can.[edit]

So I did. - Amgine 07:20, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Wells Fargo Barclays logos merger.jpg"[edit]

Some do-gooder will probably delete the nice logo you used for the Wells Fargo story, as fair use isn't allowed on the Commons.

Wikinews is artificially constrained by not having its own repository for fair-use images, as this is crucial for us to use corporate logos in our business reporting, as you have done for this story. The press has every right to use such logos in its reporting.

I'm curious why Wikipedia gets its own image repository for fair-use images but Wikinews does not.

Is there a discussion to settle the licensing of Wikinews somewhere? I see in one spot that it is public domain because the license isn't settled, but the footer implies that this site is GFDL.

Regards,

DV 08:37, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Just looking around[edit]

Thanks for the clarification on the Admin list. I was just looking around on the Special pages and noticed the change logs, and then found the actual list of Admins from there.

I also found the sole Wikinews image (it's the Wikinews Beta logo) and determined that trying to bypass the Upload media link in the navigation sidebar by manually typing in the URL for the Wikinews Upload page simply returns a page with a message that uploading is disabled.

(I just wanted to make sure we really have to use the Commons.)

Regards,

DV 11:02, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Fair use images[edit]

Davodd - I'm chatting with the Wikimedia people at the moment. Do you have citations for fair use of images by the press? - Amgine 22:42, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

response on Amgine's talk page. -- Davodd | Talk 23:09, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Davodd! I directed them to those links... I hope things work out. - Amgine 23:46, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)