Wikinews talk:Columns

So, I think some discussion really needs to be done here. What kind of Columns do we want to accept? How would they be governed, and marked?

Should we have a template saying that it's the opinon of the author, and not Wikinews? Should Column writers be required to give real names? Lyellin 03:09, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I also do not feel thatt News Sources, Wikinews Presscard Application Form, or New Wikis are appropiate headings for columns, nor is "future events". Columns I picture as opinons/editorials, perhaps talking about specific sports, etc. Lyellin 04:38, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Columns is tough because it goes against the principles of neutral point of view and wiki (anyone can edit). It seems natural that such articles would need to be in their own class/category with a disclaimer. But then, people need a voice. Looking at the long-term plan of being a quality news feed for small organizations, it seems reasonable we would carry columns. Wikinfo has something like this going on, where personal POV articles like columns are permitted. 119 03:25, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hullo Everyone, the question is not whether POVs should be allowed, the question is that "which" POVs should be allowed. I think this can be resolved dynamically by a democratic procedure, as in the case of Wikipedia. What do you think? Once we achive critical mass, blogs should have their own category under columns. It's probably wrong to call it column, and better to say it's POV News. - Rohit Gupta, columnist 202.63.171.66 08:23, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Can we just cancel this entirely? Crosswords and cartoons I like, so long as we maintain a high standard of professionalism in both (ie no chicken scratches). Otherwise, it's just not going to work. -- user:zanimum

Are you saying that the Wikinews can ignore the influence of opinion/blogs?!! It's the fastest growing collaborative news phenomenon in the world. 202.63.171.66 13:27, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I don't think blogs are relevant to this. They are two very different concepts. Wikis are collaborative and this one in particular is neutral (Wikinews:Mission_statement. 119 18:50, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nothing stops Wikinews users from running "columns" from their own User namespace pages. In fact, I think it should be encouraged, as it's the closest we get to a blog. And unlike the main namespace, the User namespace implies a sense of authorship of content, and NPOV isn't meant to apply there. Perhaps we could then use the Columns pages to index these pseudo-blogs by users. -- IlyaHaykinson 23:36, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

In fact, I feel like doing something like that myself. We just need to agree on the policy for it... and, of course, more news showing up. :-p Cap'n Refsmmat 23:51, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Sure I think columns should be done. Sports columns for one, so an author can make comments about the players, their quality, etc. without having to stay NPOV. How do you say "so-and-so is a bad player" without it being POV? The column could have opinions such as that.
Also, I think "news summary" columns should be done, where the news in certain topics is discussed. Perhaps a "science news" column which discusses latest developments and their impact on society, future (insert field here), and so on. This could be weekly perhaps. I'd even be interested in writing a science one myself!... Cap'n Refsmmat 22:30, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

What is a neutral point of view? No single human being possesses such a thing. The Wikipedia comes 'close' to achieving this because when a lot of people come up and their POVs interact, a sort of addition-substraction makes the result neutral. That is what we in the Wiki revolution call NPOV, right?

One of the reasons behind having POV op-ed columns in a newspaper is this - sometimes an individual's opinion can shape collective opinion because of dissent and later, comprehension. Sometimes one man comes up with a POV that no collective has. Let us not forget that the force that drives our collective consciousness is the individual. I must be free to express my opinion, and so must you, or we will never achieve NPOV and objectivity.

Wikinews is easy to understand as an idea, now that Wikipedia is a success, but it will not be so easy to implement. Wikinews treads that very thin line between what is personal opinion, neutral reportage, and outright propoganda. Most people misjudge their own opinions. Please consider these issues very carefully before dismissing columns or any kind of news-oriented content. Fadereu 08:03, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Options

A few options for how columns could be dealt with. 1. User namespaces could be used to post columns. Then we could vote on having them displayed on the main page or elsewhere, or indexed some way, but make sure they are marked as user documents. 2. Users can apply to be columnists with Wikinews. The community can approve the idea for the column, and some mechanism is used to post them on the main page, or elsewhere. 3. No columns could be allowed.

A couple options- there are probably more, but we need to begin to discuss these. Lyellin 07:24, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I suggest we use "Opinion" in place of "Columns" because I think Opinion is a more accurate description. 119 07:31, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I agree with 119 and I think option 2 is best. We don't want random people making columns or even blogs just for their amusement, and not at all related to news or other things.

Personally I'd love to create a science and technology column, discussion developments of the week and whatever. Cap'n Refsmmat 23:24, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This site will have zero personality if we don't allow any personal opinions to be interjected anywhere. Besides, the selection of stories is already showing signs of certain individual's opinions, what's the difference between selectively reporting the news versus sharing an opinion?

There is a spectrum between barking mad rants, and dry sterile analysis, and I hope we can find that happy medium, otherwise Wikinews is nothing more than a folksy news aggregator, with the down home charm of a selection of stories that wavers between odd positions on the geopolitical spectrum, with random sports, science, technology, culture, entertainment, and the weather thrown in for good measure. (Did I leave anything out?)

I heartily endorse option 1. There should be no prior restraint as would be the case with option 2. If a user is barking mad, no one will vote to place his opinion column on the Editorial page, and it will then sit in relative obscurity on their user page. I think we can all be grown up enough to avoid having to impose option 3.

I would like to read the opinions of my fellow editors.

Of course, all of this is subject to Jimbo telling us how this site will really be run. I'm still waiting for Jimbo to weigh in beyond his "it's early, let's see how it shapes up" type pronouncements, as we could all reach a consensus on this issue and then learn that we are sadly mistaken as to how much freedom we really have to move forward with any of this.

Rather than potentially waste a lot of time voting whether to allow opinion columns, perhaps we would be better off simply waiting to see if a few editors post their opinion columns on their user pages, and then voting on whether any of them are written well enough to deserve to be featured on the Editorial page.

I'm sure after a few test runs of this process, either a consensus will build that we're on the right track, and Jimbo will endorse the idea, or our leash will be tugged, and we will go about the other business here on Wikinews.

Any volunteers? Cap'n Refsmmat, do you have any pressing column topics on science or technology you would like to write? I'm eager to read one.

— DV 15:10, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I worry about just letting it happen, for the sole reason that it will be the most contentious issue we face. But I'm also at a loss as to how to get more discussion going on this topic ;) Lyellin 16:25, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I strongly endorse Opinion articles (or Columns or whatever you want to call them) immediatelly being encouraged on user pages. We don't lose any freedom to not index them later on (an external site could do that, and being in the User space implies some separation from Wikinews), and retain the freedom to make good use of them down the line. I don't think that it will become a contentious issue until we start dealing with them. -- IlyaHaykinson 01:49, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Well, I guess you could say that I'm just sitting here waiting for permission to make a column. I would if people would agree.

That said, I do have a blog on a different site. Here. Cap'n Refsmmat 00:46, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Take a look at my new column, in my namespace (and labeled as an experiment). It is available in a subpage of my user page. I'm trying to keep it NPOV (if that's possible) and so it's entirely factual statements, taken from reliable news sources. As such it really doesn't count as an opinion piece. I hope you like it. Cap'n Refsmmat 03:26, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

This page is confused

What is it about? Press coverage should be collected at Wikinews:Press coverage.--Eloquence 07:58, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)