Category talk:Kim Jong-il

Former?

@SVTCobra: This one has been bothering me a bit (and I think there might be at least one other like it that's come up since). Saying someone is a former whatever suggests to me they left office; but this guy died in harness. Would one describe Tutankhamun as a former ruler of Egypt? (Not a rhetorical question.) --Pi zero (talk) 03:00, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Oh, if that's the case, I regret to tell you I described others who died in office as former. I do think I gave Ataturk credit for being first, but there were numerous leaders in Africa who didn't quite make it to retirement. You may have noticed, I sometimes use the phrase "who died in xxxx" and I do that when it appears we didn't cover it. If I see their death in the WN headlines, I don't mention it and just say former. Or at least that's what I am trying to do. It appears I missed that mark on our fried Jong-il, yet I struggle to see what else to say. He is former, do we say he died in office? They've basically got a monarchy going on over there. --SVTCobra 03:24, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Re monarchy, yes, my comparison to Tutankhamun was non-random. I'm not really sure how best to handle these, which was why I didn't remark when I first noticed this, but it continued to bug me and finally I decided I should say something so we'd have multiple heads working on it and, even if we didn't come up with a better way immediately, there'd be an on-wiki record of the question. --Pi zero (talk) 03:31, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Should we treat natural deaths differently than coups/assassinations? I thought, I had a pretty good system going on, but I do see your concerns. "Former" just felt like the least encyclopedic way of saying it, not matter what happened. Cheers, --SVTCobra 03:54, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Pervez Musharraf didn't go willingly, as another example, but he lived. Or are you just looking for a "until his death" type of phrase? Category:John Atta Mills is one who died in office, but of natural causes. It says "late" but I am sure I didn't choose that word. Category:Hugo Chávez I called "former". Here's one to mull on. Category:Muammar al-Gaddafi. I just say "former" ... what's an easy way to say way actually happened? Cheers, --SVTCobra 04:18, 10 August 2019 (UTC)