User talk:Pi zero

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Brian McNeil

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Please help me to publish this[edit]

{{editprotected}} —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Abhialmish (talkcontribs) 07:42, 3 May 2020‎ (UTC)


Hi I'm on mobile so maybe I should request articles. Carloswasskins (talk) 22:48, 4 May 2020 (UTC)


All of my other objections to the moves of my prepared stories not withstanding, can you please leave a redirect behind when moving such pages to avoid breaking links to the drafts (like the ones displayed prominently at the top of my user page)? Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 00:08, 21 May 2020 (UTC)


Can you please delete L? Thanks--ValeJappo (talk) 19:36, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

And A. And maybe, can you block (talk) 19:40, 28 May 2020 (UTC)
@Acagastya: I see that he is online--ValeJappo (talk) 19:40, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Tracking cats[edit]

Hi, can you please create tracking cats for the form of interviews? Namely, video, audio, phone, email, in-person-based. Overlapping is okay.
•–• 10:50, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

Can do. Will put some thought into it (to get it right). --Pi zero (talk) 12:26, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
Most of the machinery is in place; what remains is to create the specific subcategories, then add media parameters to all the {{interview}} calls. --Pi zero (talk) 06:40, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Subcats created. Which leaves "only" classifying the 494 interviews. --Pi zero (talk) 07:47, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Thank you, pizero. This really helps! :D. However, is it possible the template gives a warning if someone says "medium" instead of "media", or "e-mail" instead of "email"? I think one can blunder there. (Also, the tracking cats don't show up in the categories section as hidden cats -- it will be better if they did, so that I don't have to click edit to see if they were categorised or not.
•–• 08:50, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
  • Medium vs media should be very easy to do.
  • Aliases for the names of particular media, I really should have thought of, they're obviously needed, but will take just a bit more machinery.
  • I should lightly rearrange those categories to use template {{tracking category}}.
--Pi zero (talk) 13:08, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
medium should now work as an alias for media. --Pi zero (talk) 13:36, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
What I'm doing atm is simply supporting those things as alternatives, which is less elegant, perhaps, that warning about them. Oh well. --Pi zero (talk) 16:35, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
It now supports "e-mail" as an alias for "email". Can support other alias, but just that one atm. --Pi zero (talk) 18:42, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Thank you, pizero. I was Actually thinking email should be an alias of text -- for example facebook messenger in this case: Talk:Tim Curry, TV premiere screenings, cosplay feature at Fan Expo Canada.
•–• 07:46, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

On considered inspection, these appear not to be suitable for {{tracking category}}, as tracking categories are transitory (may be empty at any given time), whereas interview-media categories are presumably permanent. So I guess I won't be adding {{tracking category}} after all.

You are suggesting, I take it, that we should add an interview-medium text and remove email, aliasing email (and e-mail) to text? --Pi zero (talk) 11:56, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Here's what I'd suggest.
  • To add text:
  • Additions to {{interview/media}} (without removing anything): add text to the list of interview-media; add to the list of aliases ("email" "text"), ("e-mail" "text"), and perhaps ("irc" "text") and others as deemed appropriate.
  • Once text is added to the list, an error message should appear at {{interview/media}} with a link to create the new subcat. So, create it. Once the text subcat exists, it may start to populate automatically.
  • Make sure all the articles in the email subcat are also in the text subcat before proceeding further; if they aren't, a null edit to each article —making no change, just saving the edit panel unaltered— should cause the wiki platform to update the categorization of each article.
  • There's no technical difficulty with having both a text subcat and one or more subs thereof. Each sub, such as email, would be populated and the alias would guarantee that the text parent is also populated. If we wish to remove the email sub, after the text subcat is fully populated, we'd remove email from the list of interview-media at {{interview/media}} (the alias can and perhaps should be left in place), make sure it get fully depopulated (automatically or with null edits), and delete the email subcat once empty.
--Pi zero (talk) 13:27, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
I've added text and irc, with suitable aliases. Last I looked, the system appeared to be in the process of populating the text subcat. --Pi zero (talk) 16:19, 2 June 2020 (UTC)


Hello, I am new to wikinews and unsure about the proper way to use comments. Seems in this case that it is powered both by javascript, meaning javascript is required to use comments (bad idea in my opinion). It should also be questioned why the HTML comment says "Leave this line alone. Add comments below." if the correct thing is not to add comments below, but to exit the edit interface entirely and use the javascript in the Read UI. It might be better to state that, or, better yet, have some type of abuse filter that prevents editing those pages entirely. Naleksuh (talk) 13:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi, @Naleksuh: There should be a big button nearly the top of the comments page that says "Start a new discussion"; you're supposed to click on that button. I'm not sure whether that, specifically, requires javascript, but I don't think the wikimedia sites work very well without javascript; iirc even logging in to wikimedia, as it's supposed to function, expects javascript to be enabled. Certainly Wikinews has various important automation that won't work without it; just for instance, when a draft article is ready to be submitted for review, the primary way to do that is to click on the "Submit for review" button on the article's {{develop}} tag, and that button isn't available without javascript. --Pi zero (talk) 13:56, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
Nah I frequently disable javascript in my web browser both as a web developer and because sketchy paywalls, and I appreciate that wikipedia has almost zero difference. The only differences are that the dialog on Special:Contributions and Special:Log are different. Other than that it's exactly the same. I even opted out of the javascript interface on recent changes because I prefer the regular one better. But Wikinews is very extensive in javascript in adding its own virtual features, which I can understand as its a good way to do so without direct server access, however, with the number of websites that abuse it regularly, it would not be uncommon to see it disabled.
It might be a good idea to clarify in the edit comment that comments are not added via editing the page and / or prevent such pages from being edited from non-admins via some type of edit filter.
Also, it appears that 99% of the pages on Special:Random are archived. Is there any way to see "fresh" pages only?
Thanks for information about Wikinews and comments so far, has been helpful in getting the situation sorted out, will hopefully edit here even more in the coming days Naleksuh (talk) 14:04, 1 June 2020 (UTC)
I completely sympathize on the problems of javascript. When I'm reviewing, which requires me to access all the sources of the article I'm reviewing, I use a different browser just so I can work with javascript turned off by default, only whitelisted for certain sites — including Wikinews, because we have a large amount of automation here all dependent on javascript. News sites tend to abuse javascript, and some of them —not even malicious ones as such— are among the most appallingly heavy javascript sites I've seen (I've had my browser crash on contact with some of them). It is, actually, politically impossible for us to move all our automation inside the wiki platform so it wouldn't use javascript; the Wikimedia Foundation jealously hoards centralized control of such things (just as well I not get started on a rant about that). The bottom line is, there is no alternative to using javascript for needed customizations, and Wikinews relies especially heavily on these sorts of customizations; in fact, we'd never have survived this long without our key customized automations, and we need more than we now have and are constantly working to create more (not more javascript, necessarily; my own efforts are to provide a minimal set of javascript tools whose purpose is to empower doing everything else in wiki markup).

Almost all of the articles on en.wn are fully protected; a news article is a snapshot in time, and our archives of such snapshots, preserved and displayed under glass as it were, going back about fifteen years, are a huge asset (in multiple senses). We always keep at least ten most-recently-published articles unprotected (though our archive policy kicks in, prohibiting further substantive changes, 24 hours after publication), as samples of our output; these are displayed on our main page. --Pi zero (talk) 14:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

Not just javascript in general, but also that content is added via the read interface is a bit confusing in general, for those familiar with wikis but not with wikinews. Not a huge deal as I understand now, but confusing at first.
I am aware of the archive policy, but I mean if there is any way to get any random non-archived article. "No" is a fine answer here, just that the current Random function seems rather useless Naleksuh (talk) 06:35, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

@Naleksuh: On the main page, you can see a list of the links which are not archived -- anything older that those are archived.
•–• 06:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Also, recent changes shows that an IP edited Talk:"University_of_Queensland" even though that page does not exist anymore, it was moved to Talk:University_of_Queensland. Is this another wikinews feature, or just a mediawiki bug? Naleksuh (talk) 06:39, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Neither a feature, nor a bug. If you create foo and then someone moves it to bar without leaving a redirect -- it is not purged from the RC.
•–• 06:41, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
It is on other wikis though Naleksuh (talk) 06:50, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

that is how mediawiki is supposed to work.
•–• 06:52, 2 June 2020 (UTC)


Why are there no Checkusers on Wikinews? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ICameHereForNews (talkcontribs) 02:34, 4 June 2020‎ (UTC)

What you want there is four tidles: ~~~~

We always went to great effort to make sure we had our own checkusers. However, the Foundation does not allow a project to have just one local checkuser, on the theory that it's too much power for one person to hold without a second person to act as a check on them; so if a project has only two, and one of them loses their checkuser status, the Foundation suspends the other as well. It's my impression that on Wikipedia, if a checkuser appears to be inactive, they're likely to receive a polite inquiry; but, whether that's so or not, it certainly isn't the Foundation's attitude toward small wikis, so when one of our two checkusers was seen to be over the line on inactivity, they yanked both our CUs without attempting to be polite to anyone. --Pi zero (talk) 02:57, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

So is there anyway they could be brought back? ICameHere ForNews 05:55, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Yes, by writing two nominations for local CUs. I think this is work in progress. --Gryllida (talk) 06:09, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

Who can give users checkuser rights? ICameHere ForNews 23:39, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Technically, I believe, Stewards. The Foundation perceives, I think, a legal concern with the handling of private information by CUs, hence the various constraints on the voting process etc. --Pi zero (talk) 00:15, 13 June 2020 (UTC)


There was a bit of a scare this week, and it looked like LiquidThreads might break. It looks like it's going to be okay this time after all, and it may (hopefully) hang on for years, but it's reminded me that it's really just one catastrophic bug away from an unscheduled removal. Do you have any preference for its (eventual) replacement? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:33, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

I've been hoping to eventually replace LQT with something using dialog. My development of dialog-based semi-automated assistants is really difficult development that has been moving even more slowly than I'd hoped, and I was already figuring it would take several years. But I'll put some thought to perhaps prioritizing that particular application of it.

Several years ago, with the Foundation pushing Flow especially at the time, we had a community discussion here on this subject. Though LQT breaking was not something we discussed then. Key take-aways from that, as I recall, were that  (1) Flow sucks, and  (2) although LQT is something we all kind of love to hate, and everyone was very clear that wiki markup is what talk pages should always be, for the peculiar function of opinions pages LQT is actually a great improvement over the old wiki-based talk pages. We had, I remember, a project veteran who recalled that in the Before Time, when our opinions pages were straight wiki pages, we were forever pouring effort into fixing misformatted comments — because, of course, writing discussion comments is a moderate-level use of wiki markup, not something likely to go smoothly for someone with zero prior experience of wiki markup, which is a common case for the opinions page of a news article.

@Bawolff: Any thoughts on this? --Pi zero (talk) 01:10, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Its not like flow is being developed anymore either (Or is it? Was always pretty ambigious what the state is). I guess i don't work here anymore so i can be a bit more frank in my views on flow. I personally like LQT better than flow, although flow could probably reasonable replace LQT for the opinions page use case (flow is more polished but misunderstanding use cases. I think it suffered from unclear vision statement and pivoting to different visions through its development, well at the same time being opinionated in its design decisions. After all it was originally envisioned as a facebook walltype feature or maybe something similar to say Asana's "inbox" feature, which is very different from a talk page. LQT is hacky and ugly, but very flexible and more suited for wiki workflows). I appreciate the maintenance problem is critical, although translatewiki still uses it, perhaps that will direct the minimum of maintenance required. Beyond that, not sure what to say. If LQT dies then it dies and we'll have to move to something. There's no obvious candidate right now, so unless its death is imminent i guess i would say don't worry about things that might be that you don't have the power to change. Bawolff 08:14, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
Flow hasn't been in active development for years. The Product department has declined all requests to have more wikis use it. Maybe they'd rather have more Flow, if it meant removing LQT from the servers, but I think they'd rather turn everything into plain wikitext pages. I don't think that Dialog has been considered at all. I don't know if you've looked at the mw:Talk pages project/replying tool and the related work on starting new discussions, but it should reduce the misformatted-comments problem.
It looks like there's no emergency here, but please keep it in mind. No software lasts forever, so someday we'll need to figure out a replacement for LQT. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:55, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
I've been gently suggesting for years that everything should be done in ordinary wiki text, on the theory that there's not much point in having an idea and not sharing it with others. Using wiki text for everything is also what dialog is about, of course: supporting interactive pages through ordinary wiki markup. (It's both easier and harder that one might think, as I've been discovering these past several years.) The idea of facilitating reply is something I've had in mind for dialog, and may well have mentioned to someone at the WMF at some point; I was heartened to note recently the Foundation is doing something of that nature, though I've been plenty busy with my own thing and haven't yet taken time out to study what they're up to. --Pi zero (talk) 18:47, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
The newest version finally reached (five of) the wikis. Click on and try it out. Local testing at any wiki should be enabled soon-ish (maybe this week's train). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 20:35, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

Can you help?[edit]

An editor by the name of "Vote (X) for Change" has been globally locked. It made 35 edits ten years ago on en:wp. It has zero edits on commons but has been indefinitely blocked there. On en:wp "Vote (X) for Change"'s talk page access was restored in 2016 but was revoked again one minute later. This seems unduly harsh, while the global lock is indefensible. How can these actions be reversed? 2A00:23C5:E117:6100:81C9:C123:97E8:D24A (talk) 15:21, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

There's a page at meta about how to appeal global locks. --Pi zero (talk) 17:09, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
The following log entry appears on that page:

20:48, 15 July 2018 Trijnstel talk contribs changed protection level for Steward requests/Global [Edit=Allow only autoconfirmed users] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) (Persistent vandalism: let's make this indefinite, no reason to keep this open for anons) (hist)

What does the appellant do now? 2A00:23C5:E117:6100:4CDB:9C90:9664:4A9B (talk) 18:26, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Send an email to stewards at wikimedia dot org and explain why the lock should be lifted. --Green Giant (talk) 15:24, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
The editor doesn't have email. Any request would be directed to you as you performed the lock. The relevant page states:

As a general rule, global locks happen almost always in clear-cut situations


  • Accounts that have been used only for vandalism or abuse on multiple wikis and are actively vandalizing now or obviously are otherwise being disruptive on multiple wikis are candidates for a global lock.

Can you please explain the reasoning that led you to perform the lock? 2A00:23C5:E117:6100:9180:E6F5:51C7:3E2F (talk) 17:40, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Please carry on this discussion on the wiki where this happened. Neither this project, nor the page is appropriate for this discussion.
•–• 17:44, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
Discussion transferred to Green Giant's en:wp talkpage

2000 vs 2020[edit]

Hello, really 2000 at MediaWiki:Sitenotice and related pages?--MrJaroslavik (talk) 20:53, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

@MrJaroslavik: "2000 UTC" means 8 pm UTC. It has nothing to do with the year.
•–• 21:04, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
Oh sorry. Why here is not 20:00 UTC?--MrJaroslavik (talk) 21:06, 22 July 2020 (UTC)
@MrJaroslavik: See WN:TIME "Use a colon to separate the hours and minutes, except when using Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) when no separator is to be used."
•–• 21:33, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

ArbCom 2020[edit]

Hi, pizero. You have been elected as this season's ArbCom member. Congratulations! The new term will begin on August 4.
•–• 23:25, 30 July 2020 (UTC)


It's actually cross-wiki promo. See Special:CentralAuth/নাজিম খান --Minorax (talk) 13:17, 7 August 2020 (UTC)


Hi Pi. Would I be correct if I update Template:Source/pub/doc to say "pubtarget" is the correct name of the parameter instead of "target" and that it is optional, not required? I can update it if yes, or maybe it's simpler if you do it when you look at it. Cheers, --SVTCobra 23:04, 11 August 2020 (UTC)

It looks like I read the documentation incorrectly, however, how to use "pubtarget" didn't seem obvious to me. Cheers, --SVTCobra 23:46, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
I've tried to improve it a bit. --Pi zero (talk) 23:49, 11 August 2020 (UTC)


Did Freenode go down, I can't seem to reconnect. --SVTCobra 02:00, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Well, I can't seem to stay connected for more than 2 minutes. I am done with IRC for the night. --SVTCobra 02:12, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

From my perspective, it looked like you dropped out of irc three times in rapid succession (and stayed gone the third time). --Pi zero (talk) 02:36, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I gave up. Bedtime is coming soon anyway. --SVTCobra 02:39, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Fixing stuff[edit]

Hi, I plan to fix the pages listed in Special:LintErrors but every other page is protected. Fixing them won't have any visible changes so it's within the archival policy. Any advice on what I should do? --Minorax (talk) 09:16, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

@Minorax: Thank you for offering help. And yes, fixing lint errors do not violate archive policy. But only admins will be able to fix it. :-/
•–• 09:19, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Acagastya: But that'll just create more work for sysops if I were to place {{editprotected}} on every other talk page. --Minorax (talk) 10:51, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
@Minorax: It is supposed to be done my admins. If you place editprotected, it is going to be "nagging" -- but sometimes, nagging gets the work done. I might do it once my exams are over.
•–• 13:26, 12 August 2020 (UTC)


....with the combination of my sabbatical and COVID-brain....I'm a bit fuzzy. What is sighting unpublished articles?? --Bddpaux (talk) 20:12, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Somehow or other, in association with your edit to the unpublished COVID article, you ended up sighting it. I think it happens because of some sort of procedural confusion that results in clicking an "accept" button at a moment when one shouldn't, which iirc happened once (upon a time) even to me. See: log. --Pi zero (talk) 20:39, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
OK, I think I get it. --Bddpaux (talk) 14:56, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Lint errors..[edit]

Most of the errors I am finding in mainspace are due to 'cosmetic' formatting issues in the input parameters to templates.

So I'd appreciate some review of what I've already attempted repairs on... with some hints on where I might reasonably focus attention. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:20, 24 August 2020 (UTC)

I've got a lot of stuff that needs doing "immediately", or I'd be keeping up with your edits as you make them. I've been mostly making sure, as you go, that if I don't get to checking your edits immediately, they at least show up in pending edits at Category:Review so I'll be able to find them as time permits. --Pi zero (talk) 13:52, 24 August 2020 (UTC)


Code review requested. I didn't want to raise an {{editprotected}} until I was sure the code was correct.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:33, 9 September 2020 (UTC) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:33, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

I'll take a look when I get a chance (perhaps in a few hours). The Howdy template is a sensitive issue, though: It's transcluded, not subst'd, on some humongous number of talk pages, I think last I checked it was well over a million, as a result of which we tend not to make tweaks to it; and we'd really like to redesign it, if we could work out just how to do that — we did redesign it a few years ago but it didn't help the way we'd hoped it would. --Pi zero (talk) 13:37, 9 September 2020 (UTC)


I requested a news. Cudderizbak (talk) 04:10, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

@Cudderizbak: I see that. Some thoughts.
  • There's clearly some sort of news event there. Perhaps the event is a Nobel prize nomination. It's obviously being used as a publicity stunt by the pro-Trump faction, but Wikinews neutrality policy would not allow us to present it that way. I suspect the two sources you cite might not provide enough breadth of perspective to assemble a neutral presentation.
  • It strikes me as very likely we would need one or more non-US sources, because most sources within the US would be either pro-Trump or anti-Trump, and besides the propagandist approach of pro-Trump sources, the anti-Trump sources would be likely to just ignore the story, depriving us of an alternative perspective.
  • Such an article ought to offer our readers some minimal perspective on the relatively significance (or lack thereof) of nominations for such a Nobel prize.
  • I, personally, would not get involved in writing such an article, because I'd need to keep myself available to review it, and our review policy only allows me to review an article if I'm not a co-author.
--Pi zero (talk) 14:57, 12 September 2020 (UTC)


Is wikinews dying, not much activity of late??? Crupzons (talk) 21:40, 25 September 2020 (UTC) China fishing will it be deleted I hope not. Crupzons (talk) 21:53, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

  • About the article, I left a note on your user talk. I could set up some of the peripheral structure on that article page for a developing article, but perhaps instead you'd like to re-start the article under a different name using one of our article creation forms (such as the one at WN:WRITE)?
  • Wikinews is definitely going through a slow period. We're busy doing things internally for the long-term benefit of the project, but our output is low. I try to be available every day for review, which is crucial —that there always be someone available when someone does submit something for review— but there hasn't been much submitted for review lately (although, after a very slow week, suddenly two things have been submitted within the past day and are now clamoring for my attention; I expect to be busy on those in upcoming hours).
--Pi zero (talk) 22:02, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Page move[edit]

Hey, I edited the Debate Cancellation article to reflect your advice. Would you be able to move the page so that the title specifies the country and/or presidential candidates? Thanks! The Irate Communist (talk) 00:34, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

@The Irate Communist: Well, I tried a rather unimaginative change to just tip in the additional info. It's been suggested to me to further drop the word "presidential". If you have thoughts on improving this headline, please do suggest. Before publication, we can just rename it; after publication, though we don't like to rename post-publication (it causes duplicate entries in some news feeds), we can still discuss alternatives and learn for the future. --Pi zero (talk) 00:51, 11 October 2020 (UTC)


What should I write that goes by wn guidelines??? HazzerardRavens (talk) 22:17, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

@HazzerardRavens: I suggest first reading through Wikinews:Pillars of writing, which is a compact overview of what we do here. Then, for how to write a first article, there's an excellent tutorial at Wikinews:Writing an article, and there's also an experimental Wikinews:Article wizard. --Pi zero (talk) 22:27, 17 October 2020 (UTC)


Am I dreaming or was there an article about ransomwhere in the queue? If it is still around I just came across in case anyone is interested. Regards, Ottawahitech (talk) 04:10, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't remember something queued on that topic. It's a current news-event, certainly, viable focus for an article. --Pi zero (talk) 04:12, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Can't add a comment to published page[edit]

Just to let you know: Comments:On the campaign trail in the USA, September 2020. cheers, Ottawahitech (talk) 17:39, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

@Ottawahitech: What exactly did you try to do, and how did it fail? --Pi zero (talk) 17:59, 1 November 2020 (UTC)

Hello pizero[edit]

I'm unblocked now, thanks to stewards. Talk to you later. FcoonerBCA (talk) 23:31, 4 November 2020 (UTC)

o/ --Pi zero (talk) 23:44, 4 November 2020 (UTC)