Talk:'Bloody Sunday Inquiry' publishes report into British Army killing of activists in Northern Ireland

BBC?

Which BBC report did you intend to link? --InfantGorilla (talk) 14:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Tense?

Do you intend to hold onto this until publication, and add initial reactions? If not it is almost ready to go now with the headline: Britain to publish Bloody Sunday inquiry report today --InfantGorilla (talk) 14:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I am waiting for the publication and to add some reactions. Mrchris (talk) 14:26, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

OK i think it can be reviewed now. Mrchris (talk) 16:34, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Title

Sorry Amgine, are you saying it should be renamed from Britain releases inquiry report into 1972 civil rights activists deaths to United Kingdom releases inquiry report into 1972 civil rights activists deaths ? Mrchris (talk) 17:26, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I'd prefer UK to United Kingdom; it's shorter. Actually, I'd prefer Northern Ireland since that is correct and UK is wrong. Northern Ireland is one of four three jurisdictions that between them make up the UK. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 17:29, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Britain is a region within the United Kingdoms of Britain and Northern Ireland, which is the full official name for the country at the moment. See SG Details-B#Britain. - Amgine | ^t 17:30, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Ok would someone move the page, I think UK is better than Northern Ireland as it was a UK goverment inquiry rather than a Northern Irish goverment inquiry. Mrchris (talk) 17:35, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

<gestures invitingly to Blood Red Sandman> - Amgine | ^t 17:37, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Gimme some time to establish - with a professional - which jurisdiction this was conducted under. I'll sort it in five mins. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 17:39, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• Done with a nod to a certain lawyer relative. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 17:43, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

This inquiry was set up before there was a devolved government in Northern Ireland? It must have been set up by the UK government. I could be wrong but it was released in the house of commons not the Northern Ireland Assembly. Could you recheck this or give some sort of reference, thanks Mrchris (talk) 17:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I also don't think that police justice powers have been given to the Northern Ireland Assembly yet. Mrchris (talk) 18:07, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Referrenced to an advocate in Scotland. I would suggest the Judicature (Northern Ireland) Act 1978 would be a good alternative reference. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 18:14, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Police justice powers devolved I believe in April of this year. Very recently, in any case. - Amgine | ^t 18:16, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• A better act for me to cite might be the Government of Ireland Act 1920, which created the jurisdiction. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 18:19, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• My point is that it was commissioned and released by the house of commons (so UK) not by any Northern Ireland government/power. It was created under the Tribunals of Inquiry (Evidence) Act 1921. Mrchris (talk) 18:22, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

To be clear, for the title I would be happy with the more accurate House of Commons releases inquiry report into 1972 civil rights activists deaths (link) but i think UK releases inquiry report into 1972 civil rights activists deaths would be the best title. Mrchris (talk) 18:30, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• The Act cited does state that such will be performed in the High Court, or the Scottish Court of Session. The reason this is not split further is because High Court is the name given to different courts in both England and Wales and NI. The former has the High Court of Justice; tha latter is simply 'the High Court (of Northern Ireland).' EDIT: The full text may specify.
• It may have been ordered by 'the UK', but such does not exist as a legal entity with very few exceptions, and therefore cannot conduct a public enquiry. A suitable jurisdiction must be picked.
• To reply to the edit of yours that conflicted with this, you may be interested in my comment on Amgine's talk - which proposes a way of avoiding this ill-defined word 'releases' altogether. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 18:33, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• Ok this discussion could go round in circles, how about Saville Inquiry publishes report into 1972 civil rights activists deaths in Northern Ireland. Mrchris (talk) 18:46, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• Works for me. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 18:47, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

OK cool, could you move and review, thanks Mrchris (talk) 19:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll try; I may or may not have time for a full review. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 19:10, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• Just a note from a Rulings of the Tribunal, "The inquisitorial procedure is alien to the concept of justice generally accepted in the United Kingdom. There are, however, exceptional cases in which such procedures must be used to preserve the purity and integrity of our public life without which a successful democracy is impossible. It is essential that on the very rare occasions when crises of public confidence occur, the evil, if it exists, shall be exposed so that it may be rooted out; or if it does not exist, the public shall be satisfied that in reality there is no substance in the prevalent rumours and suspicions by which they have been disturbed. We are satisfied that this would be difficult if not impossible without public investigation by an inquisitorial Tribunal possessing the powers conferred by the Act of 1921. Such a Tribunal is appointed by Parliament to inquire and report. The task of inquiring cannot be delegated by the Tribunal for it is the Tribunal which is appointed to inquire as well as to report." Mrchris (talk) 19:05, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• Like I said, it can order one but it cannot conduct it. I could now go into the root of the issue - how we define 'releases' - but it isn't worth it when we can so easily use an alternative that avoids this. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 19:10, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• Oh, and Mrchris? Could you possibly fix the double-redirects while I work on reviewz? Thanks. Blood Red Sandman ^{(Talk) (Contribs)} 19:13, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• Ok, will try to sort them out. Mrchris (talk) 19:15, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

* Done I think I redirected them all. Mrchris (talk) 19:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• Review change - This line needs to change - "Cameron said the Saville report states those killed were innocent unarmed and that it found some of those killed or injured were clearly fleeing or going to help those injured or dying." I don't think he used the word innocent. Mrchris (talk) 19:24, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

• After looking at title again, I have changed to less sanitized version "Bloody Sunday Inquiry" publishes report into 1972 British Army killing of fourteen civil rights activists in Northern Ireland. Mrchris (talk) 13:58, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Review of revision 1044966 [Failed]

Revision 1044966 of this article has been reviewed by Blood Red Sandman (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 19:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC). Copyright: Not ready: "Members of the official IRA fired a number of shots, though it was concluded it was the paratroopers who shot first on Bloody Sunday." - lifted directly from the Irish Times Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Not ready: I couldn't find sources for several things. Note that I did not get so far as checking Cameron's statements from the video, so they are unchecked for now. Everything else checks out ok, apart from the stuff listed below. NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: Specifically: The Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association was an organisation which campaigned for civil rights for the Roman Catholic minority in Northern Ireland during the late 1960s and early 1970s," and everything from "In the aftermath of Bloody Sunday an inquiry..." to "...UN involvement in Northern Ireland," (note: There may be little bits of that covered, but most of it definitely isn't) Is any of this mentioned in the report itself (Which you've cited)? If so, can you tell me roughly where and I'll take a look. Or did you manage one of the oldest mistakes in the book (been there, done that) and managed to miss putting down one of your sources? I haven't looked at this, but the headline suggests it will help. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Revision 1044966 of this article has been reviewed by Blood Red Sandman (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 19:54, 15 June 2010 (UTC). Copyright: Not ready: "Members of the official IRA fired a number of shots, though it was concluded it was the paratroopers who shot first on Bloody Sunday." - lifted directly from the Irish Times Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Not ready: I couldn't find sources for several things. Note that I did not get so far as checking Cameron's statements from the video, so they are unchecked for now. Everything else checks out ok, apart from the stuff listed below. NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: Specifically: The Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association was an organisation which campaigned for civil rights for the Roman Catholic minority in Northern Ireland during the late 1960s and early 1970s," and everything from "In the aftermath of Bloody Sunday an inquiry..." to "...UN involvement in Northern Ireland," (note: There may be little bits of that covered, but most of it definitely isn't) Is any of this mentioned in the report itself (Which you've cited)? If so, can you tell me roughly where and I'll take a look. Or did you manage one of the oldest mistakes in the book (been there, done that) and managed to miss putting down one of your sources? I haven't looked at this, but the headline suggests it will help. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

• Ok I am not sure what happened here, I think some of the sources changed as the day went on, I had wrote some of the article before the report was released. I think everything is sourced now. Anyway the main changes are these --

• I think all copyright issues are fixed.
• I removed the line: Anglo-Irish relations hit one of their lowest levels, with the Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs, Patrick Hillery, going to the United Nations (UN) in New York to demand UN involvement in Northern Ireland. The only news source I can find is --- Donal Thorton. "Bloody Sunday report to be released next week" — irishcentral.com, June 9, 2010 --- ( I am not sure if is legit). However there is reference in a book - The troubles: Ireland's ordeal, 1966-1996, and the search for peace By Tim Pat Coogan, I had added it for background and it can be left out.

• Although I believe that wikipedia should be a legit source for material - especially background material and where the article is a class B article. (Source) Mrchris (talk) 13:53, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

• I added a source and I made changes to this line: The Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association NICRA was an organisation formed in early 1967 which campaigned for civil rights for against discrimination of the Roman Catholic minority in Northern Ireland during the late 1960s and early 1970s. and had five key demands "one man, one vote", an end to gerrymandering, housing discrimination, public authority discrimination and the abolition of the B Specials police reserve. --- Source Gerry Moriarty. "A transforming moment in Irish history, 40 years on" — The Irish Times, Oct 2, 2008

• Again I believe that wikipedia should be a legit source for material - especially background material and where the information is sourced. (Source) Mrchris (talk) 13:53, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

• I added 2 more lines - Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister, Martin McGuinness of Sinn Fein, was "probably armed with a sub-machine gun" but did not engage in "any activity that provided any of the soldiers with any justification for opening fire". and The victims included Patrick Doherty (32), Hugh Gilmour (17), Jackie Duddy (17), John Young (17), Kevin McElhinney (17), Michael Kelly (17), Gerald Donaghey (17), William Nash (19), Michael McDaid (20), Jim Wray (22), William McKinney (27) and Bernard "Barney" McGuigan (41). John Johnston (59) died four months later.

Mrchris (talk) 23:00, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

"Bloody Sunday Inquiry" publishes report into 1972 British Army killing of fourteen civil rights activists in Northern Ireland

After looking at title again, I have changed to less sanitized version . Mrchris (talk) 09:25, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

'Bloody Sunday Inquiry' coverage by real news organisations

There is an interesting Guardian blog post Bloody Sunday: How the press greeted Saville's report. (Non-editor note: wikinews is not listed). Mrchris (talk) 16:27, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Review of revision 1045715 [Passed]

Revision 1045715 of this article has been reviewed by C628 (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 02:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: Bit late, but whatever. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.

Revision 1045715 of this article has been reviewed by C628 (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 02:37, 17 June 2010 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: Bit late, but whatever. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.