Talk:Pope Benedict apologizes for "sounding offensive" to Muslims
I suggest there should be a reference to the Non-apology apology article on Wikipedia.
"The Holy Father is very sorry that some passages of his speech may have sounded offensive to the sensibilities of Muslim believers" fails to acknowledge that there was something wrong with the statement to begin with (much less apologize for stating it).
-- NachoKB 060916
- Agreed, he seems to be saying to his critics 'i'm sorry that you are so wrong'. He doesn't even say he disagrees with the quote 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman' TRWBW 23:05, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
- Alright, in a few minutes, is there's no disagreement here, I'll add this
-- NachoKB 0609162315UTC
Wrong media interpretation (must read)
I believe that the media has wrong interpretation about the Pope's statements regarding Islam. Please read the full Pope's text at http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2006/september/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20060912_university-regensburg_en.html
The quote "Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached" was made by Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus. The Pope goes on explaining "The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable." Furthermore right after the quote, the Pope explains the God's will is unbound quoting "The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God's nature".
Please be aware of that. In summury I believe it is a non-apology apology Zer T 23:51, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
I really don't think there is anything to apologize for, why should he? Who cares if he insulted people. It's his God given right to say what he wants, and mean what he says. All that he was stating were facts anyway. If you can't see the great duality of Islam, then you are deaf, blind or dumb...perhaps all. Just look at Mogadishu, Somalia, for an example of Islam attacking non-muslims and forcing them to live their way and killing them, beating them, and harrasing them if they don't. Look to the ongoing conflict in Turkey over free-speech and the God given right to it. Insults to "Turkishness" should not be a legally punishable offence. Absurd. All Muhammed did was revise the Christian New Testamant, and induce the sword as punishment to those who don't obide to Islam's rules. Oh, that and forcing people of other religions to be second class citizens by implementing the jizya tax, which prevents them from attaining any form of success or prosper. Don't forget the obviously violent reaction by Muslims, burning effogy of the Pope, which proves his point itself. What needs to happen is Islam needs to realize these faults, and fix them, not blame others for their own short-comings. User:Roger jg 09:04, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
non apology apology
Would it be reasonable to change the title to 'Pope Benedict apologizes for sounding offensive to Muslims'? And focus more in the body on what he actually said, and the reaction to it? TRWBW 01:00, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
sounding offensive -> "sounding offensive"
I thought there was consensus that he did sound offensive to Muslims. The new title indicates that this is disputed, it's equivalent to "(allegedly) sounding offensive". TRWBW 03:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
How we should treat it
At this point in time, it's not news anymore, but anyway. I haven't read the link Zer T posted above, but now I get the impression that the way the Pope said it was unfortunate, but he was trying to make a valid point. It's unfortunate the particular quote he chose (it explicitly condemns Mohammad, not just violence). Yet the Vatican's answer is certainly still a Non-apology apology, only that now I get to see that somehow he's got a point in not apologizing (still the Vatican should make its message clear, not using an answer taken from a PR template which is so much abused these days). I'm going to edit the news to try and reflect these opinions.
-- NachoKB 07:36, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
- Alright, there I did it. Please notice it's the first time I seriously contribute something relevant to a Wikimedia project (having regularly corrected typos and the like), so I'm not really sure it fits in terms on form, style and NPOV... Please feel encouraged to improve it. Furthermore, English is not my native tongue :).
-- NachoKB 08:04, 17 September 2006 (UTC)