Wikinews talk:Requests for arbitration/Users Cartman02au et al v Mrmiscellanious/Workshop

This isn't getting anywhere, okay... yes it is... but Wikinews can't let some person stomp on another's right to expression. You can't say, you are "lazy" to elliot_k. Maybe MrMiscellanious had a bad week or a bad day, maybe a bad month.

Findings of fact

I'm really quite appalled to have a range of suggested remedies, but not a single finding of fact! How could you possibly consider what to do ... about something you have not agreed is happening yet? - Amgine | ^{talk en.WN} 01:18, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

There are findings of fact on the proposed decision page. - Borofkin 01:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Nothing, including the findings-of-fact statements, should bypass the /Workshop page. This is so as to allow discussion and possible alteration before voting. It would be very unjust to MrM, which I have recently learned to my cost. StrangerInParadise 02:05, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Workshop page is not required as any arbitrator can submit any element he or she has confidence in to the proposed decision page. Even at that point, an arbitrator can amend any element so long as it's not been voted on... There may be very similar findings/remedies/etc on the proposed decision page with slightly different wording... You're welcome to copy elements of the proposed decision to the workshop and discuss it if you like, of course. I have done so myself. --Chiacomo ^(talk) 03:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that it is not required, but it is nevertheless unjust, and perhaps ought to be required. The potential for abuse of a straight-to-vote finding or remedy is high: an arbiter can place a misleading, last-minute resolution and get votes without prior discussion. It is very bad process, as I have found to my cost. You have to consider that not all arbiters in the future will be as conscientious as you. StrangerInParadise 04:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Each element is independently voted on -- and then the final decision is voted on. There is ample opportunity for an arbitrator to oppose an element. Again, of course, anyone can copy an element to the /Workshop page... We have hopefully selected abritrators who will analyze proposed decisions before they vote -- I think we have. --Chiacomo ^(talk) 04:12, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the ArbCom may directly propose findings of facts on the decision page. In so doing they bypass the process of discussion involved in arbitrating a decision. I would strongly encourage the ArbCom to propose findings of fact before accepting proposed remedies on /Workshop. - Amgine | ^{talk en.WN} 08:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)