Talk:Local municipalities in Italy ask taxes from religious schools

Comment

The lede doesn't define a time frame. That may (perhaps) be a small matter that can readily be fixed by a reviewer during review. Since I find myself unable to review this tonight (it's 9pm local time where I am), I note it here so the point doesn't get overlooked. --Pi zero (talk) 01:14, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I tried to complete the lede, I hope in the direction that you were suggesting. Thank you to all who helped for some corrections of my text and some other things that I forgot, since I've not written for long time on WikiNews. --Mattia Luigi Nappi (talk) 10:33, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

That was the direction I was suggesting, yes. --Pi zero (talk) 11:29, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

Comments partway through the review

I'm about to take a break in this review (the off-line world is intruding on me), and am leaving some notes here on the state of the review.

• It looks to me as if the new law (IMU) came into effect in 2012, not 2014. I'd be afraid to just change it, given my practically nil knowledge of the Italian language, though.
• I've had a great deal of trouble with the sources, which are (of course) in Italian which I pretty much don't read at all so I have to coax information out of automatic translations (which are very bad; there are tricks one can use to squeeze more out of an automatic translator, and from time to time I'll consult Wiktionary). So far, I've examined all the sources at least once but have actually used material from only about half of them. Here's a complete list of everything I haven't yet marked off as fully verified:

• The taxes in question are for "property ownership and municipal services"? I'm not yet clear on just what these taxes are for. Perhaps this is background information that anyone in Italy would know... unfortunately, I'm not and don't.
• Paragraph 3 ("The first requests arrive...").
• Paragraph 6 ("Nevertheless..."); paragraph 7; second half of paragraph 8 (the De Vincenti thing: "the government has announced...").
• Paragraph 10 ("Also the president of...").
• Paragraph 11 ("At the same time..."); paragraph 12 ("The association UAAR...").

--Pi zero (talk) 19:53, 1 August 2015 (UTC)

I try to answer to all:

• The cronology of IMU and the effects on private schools: the IMU tax was thought in 2011 in order to be applied in 2014. Nevertheless, in order to accomplish the requests of European Union during the crisis period, the government started to partly apply it in 2012, adding some modifications in 2013 and 2014. The most relevant element for private schools is the Mean Cost for Student that was introduced by an act of 12/9/2014
• What's IMU and TASI:

IMU is L'imposta municipale unica (IMU) o imposta municipale propria è un'imposta del sistema tributario italiano. Si applica sulla componente immobiliare del patrimonio e accorpa l'imposta sul reddito delle persone fisiche (IRPEF), le relative addizionali dovute in relazione ai redditi fondiari su beni non locati, l'imposta comunale sugli immobili (ICI). that means: the IMU is a tax of the italian tax system that unites IRPEF (tax on the revenue), plus the addictional revenue due to non-rented properties, plus the municipal tax on properties, so maybe to be more precise we may add that it's also a tax on the revenue.

The TASI instead is defined as: Il TASI riguarda i servizi comunali indivisibili, cioè quelli rivolti omogeneamente a tutta la collettività che ne beneficia indistintamente, con impossibilità di quantificare l'utilizzo da parte del singolo cittadino ed il beneficio che lo stesso ne trae. Tra essi sono compresi, quindi, i servizi di: polizia locale, protezione civile, viabilità, manutenzione del verde pubblico, ... that means: the TASI is about indivisible municipal services, that is all the services homogeneusly dedicated to all the citizenship, that take advantage of it without distinction, without the possibility to quantify the use of the single citizen and the advantage that he/she takes. It includes: municipal police, civil protection service, car traffic management, gardens' management, ....

The measures of the Education minister for private schools are referred to both the taxes, as you ca see here [1], where you can find the main links to the ministerial acts and guidelines.

• For paragraph 3 I directly refer to two sources:

For the town of Bogliasco [2] : Il sindaco di Bogliasco (ex Pd, civatiano confluito in Possiamo e parlamentare) si era lasciato scappare di bocca di voler prendere un’altra strada. Fare ricorso contro la sentenza della Commissione Tributaria Provinciale che nel maggio scorso aveva dato ragione a don Grilli, il quale si era ripetutamente opposto alle richieste del comune di Bogliasco di versare l’Ici del 2010 per l’asilo e la casa di riposo. that means: the mayor of Bogliasco ([...]) had said that he wanted to take another way. He wanted to recur against the sentence of the District Tributary Commission that in last may said that don Grilli [the priest] was right. The last one has repetutely opposed to the requests of payment of the municipality of Bogliasco that was asking to pay ICI for the 2010 for the nnursery school and the retirement home.

For the request of the Movimento 5 Stelle: [3] : it's all already in the title Le scuole private lombarde devono pagare l'Ici: ordine del giorno del M5s Lombardia per la sessione di bilancio that means Private schools in Lombardy must pay ICI: the agenda of the M5S party of Lombardy for the budget session.

• paragraph 6: I think it's explained and sourced here in the talk in my first point
• paragraph 7: It's just to make more evident the consequences of the sentence: the new laws about IMU are applied starting from date of first application, but all the not-paid arrears related to the years before 2014 must be paid to the State. The ten years is something known in Italy, it was not sourced since it's not written in any of the source about the subject. Anyway if we want, we can use for example this source [4]: Viene allungata la prescrizione per quasi tutti i principali reati tributari di circa un terzo, e pertanto in luogo degli attuali 6 anni la prescrizione sarà di 8 anni, ed in caso di interruzione di termini si potrà salire anche a 10 anni that means It's extended of 1/3 the prescription for almost all the principal fiscal crimes, and so instead of 6 years, the prescription will last 8 years, and in case of interruption of the terms it is allowed to arrive up to 10 years.

Just to confirm it, it's what happened for the schools of Livorno after the sentence of the Supreme Court: they must pay the taxes related to the period from 2004 (ten years ago, considering that the taxes of each year are paid the year later, so in 2005 they should have paid for the year 2004) to 2009 (year of the recourse).

• paragraph 8: the italian quote of De Vincenti is apriremo quindi un tavolo di confronto con le organizzazioni non profit, comprese quelle religiose, quoted from here [5]
• Paragraph 10: Also in this case, the fact is well resumed in the title: Scuole cattoliche e tasse sugli immobili, Maroni studia misure ad hoc per sostenere gli istituti that is Catholic schools and taxes on properties, Maroni prepares measures ad hoc in order to support the [school] istitutions, quoted from here [6]. A quote of the regional assessor for Education is: Secondo quanto indicato dal presidente Roberto Maroni, valuteremo, nel corso dell'esame del provvedimento e anche nei mesi successivi, l'impatto di questa sentenza per intervenire eventualmente con misure ad hoc per le scuole religiose paritarie del sistema lombardo e scongiurarne la chiusura that is According to president Roberto Maroni, during the exam of the proceedings and in following months, we will evaluate the impact of this sentence in order to eventually intervene with measures ad hoc for the private schools of the lombard territory and in order to avoid that they quit
• Paragraph 10: The fear of the secularist association is clear in the article of the secularist magazine MicroMega and in the petition created by UAAR. In MicroMega, all the article is critical against the missing welcome of the Supreme Court sentence by the government, especially here: C’è chi ancora si sta domandando cosa voglia dire il suo invito a una riflessione, tentando di decifrare i criptici messaggi di un ministro dal quale ci si auspicherebbe un accoglimento di buon grado di una decisione così importante per la tutela di principi quali l’eguaglianza e la giustizia sociale. where he explains that the minister gets out criptical messages instead of a fine welcome for a such important decision for the proteciton of principles such as equality and social justice. [7]
• Paragraph 11: The association Uaar has created this petition [8], that declares that Chiediamo all’esecutivo di non intervenire sulla normativa e anzi, incoraggiare i comuni a riscuotere le tasse dovute e far rispettare l’articolo 33 della Costituzione, nel quale si stabilisce che “enti e privati hanno il diritto di istituire scuole e istituti di educazione, senza oneri per lo Stato”. that means that we ask to the governmente to not intervene on the law but, at the contrary, we ask to intervene in order to respect the article 33 of the Constitution, which states that companies and privates has the right to found schools and education institutes, but without any cost for the State.

Furthermore,as written here, they are incouraging people to ask to their municipality to apply the sentence of the Supreme Court: I circoli Uaar stanno scrivendo ai Comuni affinché verifichino le situazioni tributarie degli istituti paritari presenti nel territorio comunale e chiedano il pagamento delle tasse non versate. Tutti i cittadini possono utilizzare la lettera qui sotto that means The circles of Uaar are writing to the municipalities in order to veriy the fiscal situation of the private schools on the territory and in order to ask the payment of the not given taxes. All the citizens can use the following letter. from [9]

Review of revision 3711105 [Passed]

Revision 3711105 of this article has been reviewed by Pi zero (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 23:28, 2 August 2015 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: The sourcing on this was, well, unsurprisingly difficult. Note that Wikipedia cannot be relied upon as a source (though in this case, my difficulty in reading it didn't help either). I did consider adding this to the list of sources on the article, as it's part of one the sites referenced in the discussion here on the talk page and I did draw on it during review; but drawing up a {{source}} citation for it was more than I felt I could handle. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.

Revision 3711105 of this article has been reviewed by Pi zero (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 23:28, 2 August 2015 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: The sourcing on this was, well, unsurprisingly difficult. Note that Wikipedia cannot be relied upon as a source (though in this case, my difficulty in reading it didn't help either). I did consider adding this to the list of sources on the article, as it's part of one the sites referenced in the discussion here on the talk page and I did draw on it during review; but drawing up a {{source}} citation for it was more than I felt I could handle. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.