Talk:Mark Rutte Dutch caretaker cabinet announces election in November

Technicalities

should it be more accurate where accuracy is possible?

• not just any asylum seekers, specifically over war refugees, mostly from syria and ukraine. https://nos.nl/collectie/13942/artikel/2482044-hoe-rutte-vriend-en-vijand-verraste-reconstructie-van-de-val-van-rutte-iv they would have gotten a different classification, restricting family reunion (as described) and shortening stay (which has implications for attaining citizenship)
• approximately three months of negotiations https://nos.nl/collectie/13942/artikel/2482044-hoe-rutte-vriend-en-vijand-verraste-reconstructie-van-de-val-van-rutte-iv
• measures were proposed by CDA and backed by the VVD. https://nos.nl/artikel/2462966-cda-wil-onderscheid-tussen-vluchtelingen-weer-instellen https://nos.nl/collectie/13942/artikel/2482044-hoe-rutte-vriend-en-vijand-verraste-reconstructie-van-de-val-van-rutte-iv
• he has since handed in his resignation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/08/mark-rutte-resigns-dutch-coalition-government-over-asylum-row
• elections will be held at the earliest half-way through November https://www.nu.nl/val-kabinet/6271468/nieuwe-verkiezingen-vinden-op-zijn-vroegst-half-november-plaats.html

references: Bart Terpstra (talk) 14:06, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, yes, it would be better to be more specific. Will amend the article now. 1TWO3Writer (talk) 14:10, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

In the CDA proposal of February, the non-permanent group can stay for a maximum of 3 years, if the war was still going on at that point, it could be extended (but not guaranteed)

currently, all recognised refugees have the same rights, among which is the right to family reunification and a residence permit for up to 7 years, which can be converted to a perment status afterwards https://nos.nl/artikel/2462966-cda-wil-onderscheid-tussen-vluchtelingen-weer-instellen Bart Terpstra (talk) 14:42, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

1TWO3Writer, Bart Terpstra: Do we really need all these sources? Per WN:CS, we can't include extraneous sources. Heavy Water (talk) 14:12, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I have no idea. I never really edit on this domain. I'm here to read and interpret Dutch sources.

Reading WN:CS, i don't yet understand what you mean.

• The NOS timeline one should be sufficient for NOS sources, as it links to the "CDA wants division" page.
• guardian source is superflous.
• you need a source that claims "elections at the earliest half-way november" (Which is why nu.nl is there)

Bart Terpstra (talk) 14:20, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

I was just asking if there were superfluous sources; I guess we can remove The Guardian, then. Heavy Water (talk) 15:29, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

a few of the English ones might be too. Bart Terpstra (talk) 18:26, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

@Heavy Water @Bart Terpstra Guardian, Politico and Reuters got the boot. Keeping at least one English article for non-Dutch people's verification. 1TWO3Writer (talk) 18:48, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Political leanings in The Netherlands

The political center in The Netherlands lies elsewhere then in other countries (USA)

• Christian union: centre, socially conservative, fiscally liberal, but less extreme in both than the PVV, with christian values.
• D66: centre, progressive, pro-europe.
• VVD: centre-right, neo-liberal
• CDA: centre/centre-right, christian democracy/social conservatism
• PVV: right-wing/far-right, (ethno) nationalist/welfare chauvenist
• BBB: right-wing, Agrarianism, euro-skepticism.

The claim that recent years have had more far-right parties being founded and gaining seats, these new parties have not been mentioned on the article, PVV is older.

examples of recently popular far-right parties would be FVD and JA21. Bart Terpstra (talk) 15:44, 9 July 2023 (UTC)

Review of revision 4736748 [Not ready]

Revision 4736748 of this article has been reviewed by JJLiu112 (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 21:43, 11 July 2023 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Verifiability: Not ready: See below. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: Not sure where: Syria & Ukraine are mentioned Classification between refugees and other immigrants (sources say differences between asylees seeking temporary and permanent refuge) Two years for reuniting Shortened stay Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Revision 4736748 of this article has been reviewed by JJLiu112 (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 21:43, 11 July 2023 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Verifiability: Not ready: See below. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: Not sure where: Syria & Ukraine are mentioned Classification between refugees and other immigrants (sources say differences between asylees seeking temporary and permanent refuge) Two years for reuniting Shortened stay Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Review of revision 4737060 [Not ready]

Revision 4737060 of this article has been reviewed by Heavy Water (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 18:05, 14 July 2023 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not ready: This has become out-of-date, unfortunately, with more developments occurring to which this article should be refocused, in my view: Rutte officially resigned (which is mentioned here, but it's not the focus), he announced he would resign as leader of the VVD and leave politics, and the elections were scheduled for November 22. Verifiability: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: @1TWO3Writer. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Revision 4737060 of this article has been reviewed by Heavy Water (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 18:05, 14 July 2023 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not ready: This has become out-of-date, unfortunately, with more developments occurring to which this article should be refocused, in my view: Rutte officially resigned (which is mentioned here, but it's not the focus), he announced he would resign as leader of the VVD and leave politics, and the elections were scheduled for November 22. Verifiability: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: @1TWO3Writer. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Hm. I meant refocusing to the scheduling of the election, since that was the most recent development, but I guess that can be treated as WN:NEWINFO relative to this focus, keeping it from sapping this focal event's freshness. Don't forget the "when" of the 5Ws&H, though, 1TWO3Writer. Heavy Water (talk) 21:20, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

On it. 1TWO3Writer (talk) 21:36, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@Heavy Water How's this? 1TWO3Writer (talk) 21:54, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

OK, the focal event here is now what Slot said today, right? So, the lead and headline need to make clear those are the "what" and "when" (since "there will be an election in November" isn't a suitable focus, but "X said today there will be an election in November" is) and then Slot's statement needs a second source to verify it. Heavy Water (talk) 22:20, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@Heavy Water Updated. 1TWO3Writer (talk) 22:47, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@1TWO3Writer: Can another source be added (to replace Reuters, if Reuters then becomes redundant) mentioning the cabinet's announcement — Reuters' is an announcement from Slot? After that, I think this will be quick to review. Heavy Water (talk) 23:29, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Done. @Heavy Water 1TWO3Writer (talk) 23:39, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

@1TWO3Writer: This NOS source has the same problem. But an AP article I see (I'm not sure if it's OK for me to link to it in terms of reviewer uninvolvedness) will work. Heavy Water (talk) 17:07, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Heavy Water Got it. 1TWO3Writer (talk) 17:18, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

@Heavy Water It's done, by the way. Perhaps my earlier message made it seem I was about to do it when in-fact I did it. Sorry! 1TWO3Writer (talk) 21:23, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

Review of revision 4737337 [Passed]

Revision 4737337 of this article has been reviewed by Heavy Water (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 06:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: See edit history. There were factual problems with the last few paragraphs: There were actually two plans, one from the CDA in February proposing a two-status system and the one dealing with families from the VVD, with the CDA's support, that prompted the government's collapse. Also there was unsourced stuff about the VVD plan (misidentified as a VVD-backed CDA plan), presumably from the Dutch-language sources cut earlier. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.

Revision 4737337 of this article has been reviewed by Heavy Water (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 06:05, 16 July 2023 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: See edit history. There were factual problems with the last few paragraphs: There were actually two plans, one from the CDA in February proposing a two-status system and the one dealing with families from the VVD, with the CDA's support, that prompted the government's collapse. Also there was unsourced stuff about the VVD plan (misidentified as a VVD-backed CDA plan), presumably from the Dutch-language sources cut earlier. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.