Talk:Vladimir Putin threatens to give allies weapons to attack West

Pre-review

Status:    Recommend publish

Version evaluated: 4785001

• Copyright: Passed
• Newsworthiness: Passed
• Verifiability: Passed
• NPOV: Passed
• Style: Passed

Notes for author(s):

• We should be as precise as possible with statements of facts. For example, the Dutch only approved the use of Dutch-supplied F-16s in Russian airspace.
• We should use as much of provided quotes as possible to maintain original context.
• Remember that punctuation marks go inside quotation marks.
• I did not need to use the Yahoo! article to verify any facts. If it isn't used, it can be removed.

Notes for reviewer:

See above regarding the Yahoo! article.

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This is a pre-review only and is not part of the official review process. A pre-review is meant to help the author or authors improve the article and increase the likelihood of it passing a formal review. This pre-review was not done by a reviewer and represents a recommendation that can be heeded or ignored.

Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 16:49, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for the first successful pre-review (I'm surprised it took till the sixth but...) Do we really need to specificy the obvious, that the Dutch only can give permission for Ukraine to use the stuff they control permission of usage on? Quote thing is fair. The Yahoo! article did in fact verify something you removed. I will reinstate it.@Michael.C.Wright Me Da Wikipedian (talk) 21:08, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

He probably string-searched for "destroys" since that was presented as a direct quote from Putin (it's not now), didn't find it, and then removed Yahoo! Fair enough. That's why reviewers check every source, in addition to avoiding confirmation bias — finding one source supports something and assuming no others dispute it. Heavy Water (talk) 01:43, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

@Me Da Wikipedian, I don't think it is obvious and I do think we should be as precise and accurate with our statements as possible—especially-so when covering war and conflicts. The statement "This is a response to the United States and Germany granting permission to Ukraine to strike inside Russia near Kharkiv oblast with western weapons on May 30, 2024.[emphasis added]" implies by omission that the US and Germany permitted Ukraine to use any and all Western weapons to attack Russian territory. What the sources indicate is that specific countries permitted the use of specific weapons to counter-attack Russian territory under specific conditions.

I find the following article to be useful for guidance: Ukraine war raises ethical questions for newsrooms. One quote from that article:

Bellingcat founder Eliot Higgins flags a particular risk to wire services, which are constrained by extreme time pressure and working practices based on accurately reporting what various actors say – as an information source for other news outlets. But that doesn’t always work as intended in the modern online world.

"The Russian government understands how the Western media reports statements from foreign governments, generally outside the context of fact-checking and verifying statements made by their officials," Higgins said in a written interview.

"They use that as an opportunity to spread disinformation, particularly through wire services."

– James Ball, Ethical Journalism Network

While we aren't a wire service, we rarely have our own sources for these major conflicts and so we are largely regurgitating what others report. One of the things we must ensure is that we aren't changing or otherwise removing important context as we cover what others have already covered.

@Heavy Water, you are correct; I did a string search for the quote used and when I didn't find it I removed the full statement rather than rework it. Aside from no support for the quote, I didn't (and still don't) think that paragraph works well because it starts by continuing the previous paragraph's reporting on multiple Western countries approving the use of their weapons in Russian territory, then abruptly mentions the damage only to German/Russian relations. The paragraph then jumps back to reporting on Putin's reaction to multiple Western countries, rather than just Germany. It is factually correct now, supported by the Yahoo! article. Also, thank you for the tip on confirmation bias. Well-received. Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 15:39, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Review of revision 4785213 [Passed]

Revision 4785213 of this article has been reviewed by Cromium (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 02:12, 9 June 2024 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: Well written. Minor issues resolved. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.

Revision 4785213 of this article has been reviewed by Cromium (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 02:12, 9 June 2024 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: Well written. Minor issues resolved. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.