Wikinews:Video Wikinews/2.0/Yap/Archive 1

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hey,

I wa sjust wandering about the possibility of having a video ediiton of wikinews, It would open up many doors for wikipedia (imho)

Symode09 03:26, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

If you're willing to start it, I think it would be great. Around when this was discussed, I was talking to some people on irc, and a lot of people (not me personally - i like to be anonoymous) liked the idea of being in a wikinews video. Also check out Wikinews:Broadcast (and i believe you are already familiar with WNN) Bawolff 06:21, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I am interested in it also...more of a reporter POV though. I think IMO though we do not have enough stories or articles and or contributers to do WNN at this time (most unfortunate). But the doors that would be opened would be endless and would be great for Wikinews. DragonFire1024 06:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I think we do if it was on somewhere between a weekly and monthly basis. We don't need to start off with doing daily newscasts. Bawolff 06:31, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I would agree to that...but who? And how? The image above is cool as hell...but we do not have the resources for something fancy like that. We also have to figure out how the foundation would like to proceed as this would be a matter for the users. We would need funds as well...but I don't know if the foundation would supply us with funds etc. DragonFire1024 06:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
From What I gather on Wikinews:Broadcast, there is some probility of stumbling across someone who has the equipment. Which would be really cool. Otherwise its ~$800 (USD)+cheap video camera for all the equipment which is a very pretty penny. The other thing needed is someone familiar with post-editing software. /me has a slow sinking feeling of this proablly not happening Bawolff 08:28, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
What about Grants? The US has a grant for just about anything...its just a matter of getinng it. What does Jimbo think of this? He seems to like the fact that other than the Essjay issue Wikipedia is among the number one sites on the internet. What about a fund raiser specifically for WNN etc? Theere has to be something that can be done. Although I agree that this won't happen anytime soon not because of funds necessarily, but interest. If enough users who have either the Money, Time, and or equipment come forward then there is a possibility. Has anyone looked to someone on commons who might have equipment etc...? DragonFire1024 23:59, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Wikimedia foundation raised ~1.2 Million dollars. the amount we're talking here is peanuts compared to that so perhaps they might be able to lend a hand if we're lucky. As for equipment and experience from other projects. we can get info out on commons-l and announce-l (wikizine). Bawolff 00:16, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I just watched the chili finger video...Wow. I mean its like watching a real news report. Here's what I think: To start simple we should would start by covering lets say for example 2-3 stories/articles a day or more depending on coverage of the days events, which could total anywhere between a 5 to 10 minute clip on a few articles (like a top of the hour headlines clip), or a 5-10 minute news bit on featuring several articles a.k.a. a actual news broadcast. For the moment other than the equipment we can do that as we speak (a 5 minute every hour headline update). We have the images and the articles we just need them to be put on video with either a reporters voice or face, even the face could be animated much like the above image. If I had a video camera or knew someone who is as involved with Wikinews as I am, near me, then I would love to report on all the local events that I can attend here. Now we will not get paid a salary, but hell, we will make other agencies jealous and who knows, we could eventually get paid for all this...I think if we stir enough interest and put a call to arms of the most trusted and involved and resourceful users we can find, it can be done and quicker than you or I think. DragonFire1024 00:14, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
I'll just like to say I would support such a project. I've got a video camera and pretty decent with post-editing software (shameless plug, an example being newscast.mov; I'm the weird guy with the Australian accent). Personally I believe we should start with a weekly episode, to see how that goes, than build upon that (and hopefully increasing our userbase/submitted stories). terinjokes | Talk 19:58, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
On second thoughts, it wasn't the best piece of my work, but it is the only one I currently have uploaded... terinjokes | Talk 20:09, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Possible grant sources[edit]

As I mentioned above, I am wondering if grants are possible. I am listing what I come up with and would like input on each.

DragonFire1024 09:09, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Do we fall into the "documentary programs or historical dramatizations" category? Documentaries, in my mind, are somewhat timeless programs that don't cover this exactly as soon as they happen, but within a historical context, once the dust has settled. Anyone else have interpretations of the grant description, negative or preferably positive? -- Zanimum 18:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Well our policy states somewhere I believe that Wikinews articles are not a work in progress after publishing, but a collection of the worlds history at the time it happened. I think that OR would fall under history and such especially those OR articles that have more than one report aka Chili finger and the hotel articles I did a while back. DragonFire1024 04:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
A fellow blogger I know decided to weigh in on ideas of getting off the ground for WNN:
There is no doubt that adding a/v content can bring an added dimension to text/image based reporting methods, but there are pitfalls to be aware of. [I have been around this block a couple times, and I want to be clear that I am not hating on this project.] The punchline is this: professional-quality video production is very time-consuming and requires expensive software, huge bandwidth, and lots of top-of-the-line hardware. Considering the up-front expense and continued overhead, it is important that you use your limited production resources effectively. My suggestions:
For starters, you should scrap the linear presentation of news items. For old media like television and radio, producers had to decide what consumers were most interested in. Thus, if you knew there was going to be a piece on the Middle East, you'd tolerate sitting through an excruciating five-minute expose on Britney's detox treatment. That doesn't fly on the Web in general or Wikis in particular, because consumers have been empowered and expect to be able to follow their own interests.
Once you've gotten rid of the linear progression of news items, you can also get rid of the anchors. The only real job of the anchor is to MC the broadcast, but since the consumer is deciding their own path, that job becomes unnecessary. This is a good thing, because when you're on a shoestring you don't have time or resources to dedicate to producing filler. This one-minute 'pilot,' for instance, is all filler and totally unnecessary if you instead make short video segments and place them on the appropriate Wikinews article pages.
Next, consider your a/v content carefully. There's no need to stand in front of a camera and read an article that is already available as text, simply for its own sake. It is faster for a consumer to read the article on his own [also it gets indexed by search engines, whereas videos do not]. The video should bring something to the issue that can't be more easily expressed as text. Excerpts from performances, music, and movies work well. Interviews also work well, especially if you provide an unedited or less-edited version of the interview that is included in the textual article. These Chili Finger pieces are better off as plain text - it's a guy reading an article, and the b-roll is static photos run through a Ken Burns filter. The time it took him to go on-location, set up a camera, read the article, edit it together, compress it, and upload it is as far as I'm concerned a waste - because he had to write the article anyway, and he could have had it up already before he even got in his car. Instead: provide a video of the press conference.
And finally, there are technical issues. You'll have to address the format wars, of course, but there's a more pressing issue: despite its name, MediaWiki's support for non-image media sucks. At the very least, users should be able to see a preview of the video inline, much like the way images are displayed. I think it's much less intrusive if it plays inline as well, but it would be acceptable to click to a detail page to watch it [sort of like clicking on high-res images]. Furthermore, you can't expect that producers are going to have the software or technical know-how to compress video to spec. The server will have to accept multimedia files coming in from a wide variety of sources in a wide variety of formats and recompress them, if necessary, to something more consistent. This is very processor-intensive.

DragonFire1024 06:47, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. If something can be better expressed in text, it's probably better in text. The same my also go for WN:AW. However he says "The server will have to accept multimedia files coming in from a wide variety of sources in a wide variety of formats and recompress them". I disagree with that. As with our audio editions, if people follow guidelines, the server would get videos compressed decently the same, and in vorbis. I'm still thinking of the whole video edition being similar to Current's philosophy. terinjokes | Talk 09:48, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Note, that's theora for video. Vorbis is an audio codec. (Commons accepts ogg vorbis, ogg speex, ogg flac, mid, ogg theora formats for multimedia to my knowladge. there is another video codec for ogg, but I don't think its completed). For something like this, its better if its distributed in a non-web medium, or perhaps as a video podcast. The web in general has lots of choises. They can't do that in video (unless you do interactive video wikinews, with DVD like menu's, that'd be cool) so the medium has to be something where lack of choice is expected. Bawolff 21:55, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Streaming video[edit]

Free license streaming video software is one of the possible projects that Wikimedia is going to run at the Google Code Jam. I presume it would be worth it to strongly urge Brian Vibber to make this a priority? -- Zanimum 15:08, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

If this happens — yes. Its not vital (their short video's people can wait a couple minutes for download), but it'd be better. Bawolff 02:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
First we need the videos and reports :) DragonFire1024 03:31, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes we do. I'm going to email a couple people to try and spark some intreast. Bawolff 03:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I have already started to blog the discussion and the proposal. I included links to the interesting stuff like the Chili Finger LIVE Reports and links to what WNN is about and such. So lets see what we can do. BTW take a look at the above grants...se what we can work off form those or whatever. DragonFire1024 03:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree we need content before streaming capability, but unless we get streaming capability, people will be creating reports for an audience of two. -- Zanimum 18:16, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

There are four problems with the video project proposal:

1. Who will create it?

  • If it's supposed to be a regular feature, multiple people would have to be responsible for keeping it going. The last Wikinews:Broadcast test was just done by DV and it took him a looong time to put together. I would recommend a much more amateur, vlogging approach, and that a bunch of people produce videos every week (so that we can be sure that at least one of them actually ends up producing something)
Us...we should elect users or get volunteers to do whatever work is necessary and whatever work they are able to do. DragonFire1024 07:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
  • We have a problem with getting a consistent feed of Audio Wikinews, and audio is much easier to produce than video. How can we guarantee that whatever we try won't be just a one-time test like the previous approach?
The way we set our audio up does not reach a lot of people and isn't popular IMO...You need special codecs etc and its a hassle. The test last time was never followed up on...aka lack of interest maybe? DragonFire1024 07:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

2. What will the content be?

  • In the text world, our content is public for every user, and the final version is the result of collaboration. What would it be like with video? Will anchors just read the content that was written by others? If so, is there an advantage of this over Audio Wikinews? Meaning that there's very little advantage to consuming news by watching a talking head over listening to someone, or even just reading the headlines.
This is where we can do Wikinews Shorts maybe? Thats a good start. We can also just do a short headline update for each article or pick the top Favorite articles of the day...that is also a way to boot readership and interest. Video attracts more than audio. We would eventually have anchors...once we grow and are able to handle it...and again the more interest the better. DragonFire1024 07:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
  • If the video will only be produced weekly or monthly (can you even have monthly news? isn't it pretty silly? what about weekly -- is that even valuable?), how will we choose what content gets included in the broadcast?
Well we have to start slow...get interest and viewers as well as viewer feedback. I think 2 times a week is good...once is good...as a scenerio or a test run to gain popularity...almost like a teaser trailer ;)DragonFire1024 07:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

3. How will we deal with the immutability of video?

  • Unlike wiki markup, video is a lot tougher to edit. There are no good online video editing tools, and if there are any they're not possible to integrate into Wikinews. If that's the case, and someone produces content that someone else deems to violate the NPOV, for example, what will we do with the video? Completely abandon it?
We might need a formal editorial process...again by users voted in or something...sounds bad...ut thats how it would need to be done...IMO. DragonFire1024 07:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

4. How will we distribute the content?

  • Like folks were saying above, there is definitely a problem with getting video out to viewers using Wikinews or even the Commons.
  • I recommend that if anyone is truly interested, we can start this as a Youtube-hosted project: everyone can upload to Youtube, we're not encumbered by technical issues, and we don't have to worry as much about any of the above issues of distribution, NPOV, etc. Once we get the distribution, regularity of broadcast, etc proven, we can start thinking about how to get this onto Wikinews and under our policies. Until then we can link to the external content.
YouTube or as symode says soapbox...even MySpace (sounds cheesy but it is viewers). DragonFire1024 07:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, if we are to really take advantage of the video medium, we will really need a whole bunch of reporters in the field capturing interesting content. For that we'd need people with equipment in interesting parts of the world.

Look on commons maybe?? YouTube??...I love going and covering a local story. So when i can i do. DragonFire1024 07:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Anyways, these are just some thoughts on the matter. I would totally love to see WN Video, however... -- IlyaHaykinson 19:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

I would be happy to create it most of the time. The content would be the lead stories and similar to the audio edition but with presenters and graphics. If there are no presenters every now and then, we can simply use the audio edition with graphics and diagrams. Daily news would be difficult but would be useful. We can have a trial to see what will work. I could edit and compile the videos easily but, could not do it every night / day. I have editors etc. Tith the npov, we will use articles to the best of our ability. As long as we aren't compared to fox news, i'm happy!. We can have a disclaimer. I would distribute the videos on the MSN soapbox. The commons are useless. I HATE .ogg files - few people have the codecs - I do and I still don't use them. We shout outsource. I don't like youtube. The soapbox is a lot better.

--Symode09 07:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

We could also try a podcast or something like that too...We do need a voice over reporting and at some point down the road some editors or something appearing in there like an anchor but not. YouTube I don't like too much BUT it is a popular site...we might want to consider it down the line too. The soapbox is a good place to start too. So in either case I support it one way or the other. Daily: No...not to start...maybe once or 2 times a week...DragonFire1024 07:40, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
Also here is Symodes test: Wikinews TEST opener. DragonFire1024

I agree. We shoucld begin. I'll create the graphics and put them up on http://symode09.spaces.live.com/ in about 30 mins. I agree with dragonfire. syndication is a good idea (in the future) - this could mean, if we get to the point where we have daily updates, people can buy rights to display the videos on their site (for commercial companies)

--Symode09 07:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

With the opening, is there anything you think I should add to improve the opening? What do you think i should include in the news graphics which are used?

I just had a good idea. Instead of having news updates or daily news, what if we worked on something similar to 60 minutes? --Symode09 08:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a big fan of the theme song, I don't know what others think but it doesn't sound "newsy" That cannot be compared to the NBC or Sky news theme song which is used for many networks (sky news uk, Au, NZ, channel 7 (australia) etc)

--Symode09 08:18, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The world through 4:3 or 16:9 eyes?

should it be in widescreen> I far prefer widescreen. Are there any objections?

--Symode09 08:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


When should production begin for Video Wikinews?

What should the offician news be called?

--Symode09 16:00, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

I just thought of where we could get help / resources! Universities! If someone could email someone who works in the media department of a university, i'm sure they will consider it! I think the university of Newcastle in NSW is into this sort of stuff!

--Symode09 16:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Good Idea. I am not sure what the universities around here would do, but thats a good start. DragonFire1024 21:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

April 10, 2007[edit]

Graphics[edit]

Nice, but why John Citizen, Requested Scientist? You should say Thunderhead, Respected Administrator or Thunderhead, Department of the Interior, Press Officer.  Thunderhead  ►  08:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, ha ha ha... visit in a few minutes
I like...Thunder...these are just tests :) To get an idea of what we can do. DragonFire1024 08:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I know, I ... I was joking.  Thunderhead  ►  08:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I know :) DragonFire1024 08:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha ha, I know... too late! --Symode09 08:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

THUNDERHEAD! enlist! --Symode09 08:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes sir! Sir, I'd like to remind you about internal links, sir!  Thunderhead  ►  08:23, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, wonderful admin, eh? Your work pleases the Cabal. :-)  Thunderhead  ►  15:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

E-mail[edit]

Who currently has access to this email address? What emails are meant to be sent there?  Thunderhead  ►  08:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC) I actually set the address up for the Window Live Space. --Symode09 08:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes...when you sign up for it you automatically get an e-mail address for hotmail. DragonFire1024 08:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Graphics[edit]

LOL...not funny as the graphics...funny as the two people you used to do it :) I was laughing...I have to say...thats pretty good for a wide screen animation. I am impressed. DragonFire1024 09:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Music[edit]

Well i think the foundation would not care....its a matter if the license itself allows it...That will have to be researched. DragonFire1024 09:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
DF, I have this stuff on DAT as well as the original CD written on an Apple computer in Heart Street Studios Edinburgh on the second of March 1997. I spent nearly two hours on the phone with one of the guitarists (also vocalist) and his main interest is in being credited and findable from the content on the off-chance it brings him some paying work. Since I funded that studio session (a really intense six 12-hour days) I was easily able to obtain permission to license CC-BY. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:23, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Great!! I will DL a few clips...If you go into IRC i will let you know what I think. I say if you got the lisence then just do what we do when we upload for audio wikinews...I just wish it didn't have to be OGG or whatever...DragonFire1024 09:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I just heard it, Great Job!--Symode09 09:33, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Brianmc: AWESOME!! I like it...I think we should have a sample more or 2 if possible...I think its great though :)

We could always use "it's a small world after all"! --Symode09 09:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

If you have the permission for the music you can upload it, provided its in either ogg/flac (lossless) ogg/vorbis (lossy) or mid format (probably doesn't apply. Same as ogg/speex). If you got permission by email, you should forward the email to mailto:permissions@wikimedia.org . Bawolff 19:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Theme Song[edit]

On the test video we should have the intro song changed immediately to avoid copyright infringement...Use one...temporarily from the site brianmc provided maybe? music at bottom (last 2) just until we get something else? DragonFire1024 10:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not too scared of copyright infringement, I doubt sky news are sitting on the net, searching for their theme song! I will however add the audio on the blog. --Symode09 11:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed the third image, it's improjing with each version. —Symode09 11:57, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Also we should a Wikinews search box there and maybe the current WN logo as the Image? DragonFire1024 12:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
NO...we cannot...its copyrighted. DragonFire1024 12:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
See: Wikinews/Logo/Proposals but many are NOT licensed so cannot be used until we find the right ones :( DragonFire1024 12:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Don't worrk about the logo's, get the content through, work on prototype graphics done. If it were me, I wouldn't worry... I would ignore that until near the forst pilot--Symode09 13:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is some theme music. It seems their user agreement does not have a price, just that you request a license and renew it every six months and do NOT use the music for profit. DragonFire1024 13:33, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Updated Video[edit]

I don't see it. -- Zanimum 16:10, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
??You can't physically see it? DragonFire1024 16:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Try now...DragonFire1024 16:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

New logo?[edit]

Here are some examples of a new logos (Note: Feel free to edit these or make more based on these ideas. These are just examples and nothing more:

[edit]

First Wikinews logo example.

I am trying to make one with a 'real' earth in the background. First logo design on the top right.DragonFire1024 07:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit]

Second Wikinews logo example.

Here is my second logo on the left. I like this one a lot. After fiddling with the program a bit, which i have to say is for people who know what they are doing (in my case I am totally lost and am learning as I go.) It has some good features...but is difficult to operate. DragonFire1024 09:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Best out of all the ones you made, but personally I think we should stick with the site logo, or a slight modification of that logo, to keep it consistant. Bawolff 19:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit]

Third Wikinews logo example.

Here is my third Wikinews Logo. It is the best image of earth I can find...there are more...help me by looking for some :)Lower right. This one is pretty cool. Feel free to edit it. DragonFire1024 12:46, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit]

Fourth Wikinews logo example.

This is the Fourth logo on the bottom left. I am running out of Ideas ;) not really. I like this one though...accurate in a sense. The text is hard to do...if you can better the text, by all means. I do need more images, better ones of Earth if I am going to accomplish my goal of a new logo with a real earth. DragonFire1024 15:15, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit]

Wikinews logo example.

Here is my logo for Wikinews Video. I used alot of elements from the main wikinews logo, as it is well recognised amoungst the internet. I also tried to add a bit of consistancy. Stickeylabel 05:47, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I like this logo better than the other ones. FellowWikiNewsie 19:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree.  Thunderhead  ►  19:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Animation[edit]

I've done some basic animaiton - it is currently uploading. Check back here in a few minutes --Symode09 07:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Anumated bar done The bar isn't too impressive. I have three outions which can all be viewed here

The colors can be changed. I just wanted to know the rough type of animation to follow. I personally like option 2. --Symode09 07:59, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I've always liked the "sky" theme for news. Sky news has the same theme - it is really kool. I think this sun and sky theme would be really kool (in the opener, I deliberately made a point of that because I liked that theme... I couldn't find any footage that was free! --Symode09 08:16, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

The Email Address[edit]

Who currently has access to this email address? What emails are meant to be sent there?  Thunderhead  ►  08:31, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

See [1] [2]. All e-mails should and will be sent VIA Wikinews-I.

Graphics[edit]

I've done part 2... watch the whole thing, there are two scenes. video up in a minute --Symode09 08:43, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Graphics Part 2 DONE Part 2 (20 seconds long) is located here --Symode09 08:46, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

THERE IS A PROBLEM.... TO BE FIXED BY TOMORROW :'(

sorry, I have uploaded the files and they are working but, the video goes for a minute or so..... :take a look anyway right.... here --Symode09 08:55, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Would it be possible to try other colours? The same effect, but not as if it's a sun. Maybe 80c 30m 20y 0k on top of 100c 75m 0y 0k? -- Zanimum 16:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanx, I'm a bit disappointed but, I left a comment saying "it won't be long" last night and, I kept on being interrupted so, I felt guilty so I just rushed it and did what I could, I'll continue working on something... your graphics are good... which program are you using? --Symode09 09:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

This one. Its called GIMP and Its cool...but hard to use IMO....DragonFire1024 09:19, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Check this: Wikinews:Broadcast for this: TV Pilot. DragonFire1024 19:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
BTW Just an idea...not for necessary use. DragonFire1024 19:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Music[edit]

I've got permission to upload parts of the music here to commons under a CC-BY license (do they allow that?), I'm getting the hang of audacity, removing noise and editing out snippets, so if there's any bits and pieces you'd like clipped from the songs I can do it for you. I may get other stuff that we can use too. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

See: April 10, 2007.
We have added a new theme song to the video (updated version on the right). I want to thank brianmc for his hard work in getting this music and a variety of tracks we can put some theme music together from now and in the future. DragonFire1024 14:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Credit for the music goes to The Dynamos, this was from a week-long session that resulted in a CD I have the master of ending March 2, 1997. The music was recorded in Hart Street Studios, Edinburgh and the credits are as follows:
*Ciaran Bradley: Bass guitar.
*William Cambell: Backing/lead guitar.
*Andy Dunnigan: Lead/backing guitar.
*Gordon Findlay: Drums/percussion.
*Engineer: Roy Aitken
*Produced by: The Dynamos, Roy Aitken, Brian McNeil.

--Brian McNeil / talk 14:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Time Machine[edit]

I've set up a time machine so, we know a rough outline of targets. I have not added anything... when should we aim to finish the graphics/complete our pilot?

Well thats a good question...A) we need at least somewhat of a hot topic....I think the grapics can come along good...and music seems to be at hand. I am not sure...maybe a month or so, maybe less??? DragonFire1024 09:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
We're going to have do answer and set a date for each of the questions on the time machine page --Symode09 09:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Mailings[edit]

We should send update on the wikinews mailing list. I will send the initial one about the project. DragonFire1024 10:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Great Idea! --Symode09 10:42, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Oh, can we start discussing the questions on the [[Wikinews:Video_Wikinews/2.0/Time_Machine | time machine]? thanx --Symode09 10:42, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Theme Song[edit]

I have rustled up a (very) quick demo/test intro music sample from the track Brian suggested and some one talking in an audio brief. It is available here (play in browser)or on commons as .ogg here--MarkTalk 13:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I like it a lot :) but eventually, the voice at the end would have to be changed to whatever we decide to name the broadcast. DragonFire1024 14:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Yup, this was just a really quick demo to show where/when the person would talk. It will be easy to edit it out for the real version.--MarkTalk 14:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Kool! I'll add it to the video and see how it goes. Have a look on the blog page in 10 mins
I have many idfferent versions of this track. Theres the one above, the one with no man talking but still fading and the one with the track at whole volume, however on the one above is hosted. If you would like any other versions then contact me and i will email them to you. --MarkTalk 14:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Updated video[edit]

Done! The is on the blog (it is the first video) --Symode09 15:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Site Access[edit]

Will we get access to this site to update it?? DragonFire1024 14:10, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

That, and why do we need a seperate site? Can't we upload the videos directly to Wikinews/Commons, or to Youtube/Google Video and use the embedding features to get them to show up on the site? -- Zanimum 16:18, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Hm well i know there is a code for embeding youtube vids but not sure if it works on foundation wikis. Certainly works on wikia but will have a dig round to see if it works.--MarkTalk 16:20, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Nope the code isnt enabled on foundation yet. Dont know if they plan to or not.--MarkTalk 16:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)


I am happy to change the password and give it to the users working on the project but if I give the user/password out, how will we contrill who has access to the account? --Symode09 16:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Trust me, the features in the soapbox are way better. People (in general) don't want to have to get ogg codecs, install them, get them working and all that sork of thing whenever they want the news. People want video on demand (VOD) which is whay places like youtube are so popular. --Symode09 16:22, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Also the Wikinews:Video Wikinews/2.0/Read in regard to the grants...if we apply, are that we use on demand video or streaming. Symode...my e-mail is on my user page if you want to send me the PW...I want to put some images upof Wikinews. DragonFire1024 16:25, 10 April 2007 (UTC)DragonFire1024 16:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
We should probably have it on multiple places. An official version (in the horrid ogg theora, which can now be played in browser by the way) on commons, and then also on youtube/google video/whatever MS calls thier thing, etc. Bawolff 20:05, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree. I have it on my MySpace Profile. Lets do it. DragonFire1024 20:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

60 Minutes[edit]

For those of you who don't get real news (ie. those of you who have access to fox news *cough USA*) 60 minutes is the best news show in Australia. You can see one of their stories |here. Even though this isn't one of their best stories, it still gives you an idea of what the show is like. If we create one show with one article like this a week, I would be over the moon. --Symode09 16:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Me 2 :) DragonFire1024 16:45, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Yup nice dig at me and my small little island. Very funny (to be fair i would rip it out of you too though ;-) But yeah if we could get something like that then i would also be impressed. --MarkTalk 16:50, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Then It's settled, I'm better then alll of you! :P --Symode09 01:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Attack of the Show[edit]

Perhaps Wikimedia could sponsor an all-inclusive programming block a la Attack of the Show. Wikinews wouldn't nessesarily need a "full show", but perhaps a segment evenly divided in to the Foundation's block. For example, Wikipedia editors could host a Wikipedia segment, Wikiversity instructors could teach for a segment, and Wikinews could distribute the news for a segment. I honestly think that a full show is more appropriate, I'm just throwing this idea out.  Thunderhead  ►  17:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I think that's a great idea [in the future, once we have content], I have no idea how much paid programming costs, but if the magical chopping knife can afford an hour, I'm sure the foundation could. Bawolff 20:08, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
No, no they can't. They have enough to keep the Foundation sites up for the next year, little more. -- Zanimum 21:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
See: Wikinews:Video Wikinews/2.0/Read for possible grants. DragonFire1024 21:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Commons[edit]

We really should upload the second video to commons. At least for easy Wiki-wide access. DragonFire1024 01:06, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know (yet)... the stock footage I used etc. Is tnot attributed yet. I personally don't care about the copyight etc. but, others will complain.... I will for the next version if all fottage attributors give it the "okay"
--Symode09 01:30, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Thats where you upload to commons under the CC by 3.0? so that YOU have to be attributed. DragonFire1024 01:32, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
It's not that, I don't own the images or have their rights (yet) --Symode09 01:35, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Where did you get them from? Why not make a video up from images on commons? DragonFire1024 01:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Commons images to possibly use for most or all of the Wikinews's:

Here is a list of all the Wikinews's: Wikinews on Meta. DragonFire1024 01:58, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I'll take a look :) --Symode09 02:11, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

We really do need something uploaded there though...I have all the top Wikinews's sites until China for still Image intros or what not and added the city names and regions to them (on the images). I will Upload them sometime soon. Maybe use those for a video on commons? (BTW all the images i used came from commons.) DragonFire1024 07:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

and then more graphics came![edit]

aa you know, some of the graphics I have put together are here. Whuch one is your preferred ( I can change the colours etc.) but, I need a rough indication of which designs (if any) do you like. I like option 2 but, am happy to go back to the drawing board.

I like the colors of Blues...but the lettering should be black IMO. DragonFire1024 01:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Also see: [3] Example DragonFire1024 02:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

then the motto came[edit]

What should the motto be? Possibilities

  • Wikinews; for those of you who think FOX is run by hippies
  • Your Idea Here

--Symode09 01:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikinews: Be Neutral DragonFire1024 02:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
We report, you listen --Symode09 02:10, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Call me a downer[edit]

It is inspiring to see the energy thrown into this project. I hope it succeeds. However, since we couldn't even keep Wikinews:Audio Wikinews alive, how can we expect to get Video Wikinews going? We are struggling to keep the content on Wikinews itself fresh. In its present state, no "normal" person would go to Wikinews to find out what's happening in the world. They'd be even more disappointed if they came here to find out what is happening in their 'neck of the woods'. I don't think we should kid ourselves, Wikinews Video is not what is going to make Wikinews 'break through'. First we need to get comprehensive coverage of what is going on in the world (as in covered by MSM), then Wikinews' own reporting (as in exclusive OR), and finally we can cap it off with multi-media and take over the world.

I think we need a bottom-to-top approach, where as this video stuff is a top-to-bottom way to go. What is going to be the content of these video reports? Build from the bottom. Call me a downer, but I still think I'm a realist --SVTCobra 02:13, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I can understand what you mean, (I've thought that as well) which is why we descided to use a 60minutes (the show, not length) formaat where undtill there is great enough interest, we have one story per week which can be covered in great detail once a weeek. Later on, we can develop this more.

Don't forget, it takes time for things to take off! --Symode09 02:20, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

That's why I have been working on Wikinews as long as I have. Sometimes it gets pretty lonely, trying to provide content for the front page. --SVTCobra 02:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Graphics 3.0[edit]

I present, graphics 3.0. It is 3 megabytes in size but, will give you a laugh! --Symode09 02:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

NICE!! :) DragonFire1024 08:05, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Is there any way that we could create a Wikinews channel on Youtube for the purpose of broadcasting Wikinews Video segments? Wikinews editors could subscribe to the channel.  Thunderhead  ►  22:21, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
The account should be "Director" and in the "News" category.  Thunderhead  ►  22:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm on it! Also you may want to see the latest graphics stickeylabel has designed and I've animated.... they are looking really good! They're located at http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Video_2.0/The_Wow_Starts_Now

The links only show script...no images or animation... DragonFire1024 03:23, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Fixed! --Symode09 03:43, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Publicity? Promoting what exactly? We have an opening sequence if I am reading this right. And why is ther a direct link to YouTube at the top of my page? --SVTCobra 03:51, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Publicity...you never know...its not to say in the future we may not need that person. It is to youtube cuz thats where the video can be seen at. DragonFire1024 04:45, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Symode09 Great graphics!! I love them DragonFire1024 04:48, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

It was actually stickeylabel who did all the work. I merely animated it --Symode09 06:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I know but, the video is available on the blog, thus we can have all the videos on the same page --Symode09 06:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
UWell they are :) But we need to advertise to as many people as possible...so wherever the videos are makes it that much more better that we will have viewers or contributers :) Some already signed up just because of tthis project :) DragonFire1024 06:21, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Huh? Please explain--Symode09 06:43, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
We need to advertise the fact that Wikinews is going video...so the more places that people can go to view the video (the 1 on YouTube) the better...If I could I would put the 2 on TV :) DragonFire1024 06:44, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Ooooh, ok, I've gotcha! srry. Could you add a link to the blog? --Symode09 06:49, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Videos on Wikinews pages[edit]

Is it possible to apply to have a page set up on wikinews which we can embedd videos on from external sites (ie. soapbox or youtube)?--Symode09 06:50, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

No... at least in the form of external links. We don't want to promote an outside source more than we have to and thats why we should upload to commons more often. But YES there is a way we can embed videos onto pages on Wikinews...just not sure how to do that. DragonFire1024 06:55, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I will create a video player for the site... then can we embedd it? --Symode09 11:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Hmm, embedding. It is possible as there is a code available but its not installed on foundation wikis yet. Not sure if foudation have yet got a code for commons videos and if they have whether they plan on installing it. Also the code that does exist is for youtube so i severly doubt this will ever be installed. I will have a dig around though.--MarkTalk 11:31, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Wikimedia has their own player...see the link at the top of the page where the Promo video is uploaded to commons. DragonFire1024 11:36, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes but this can currently only be embeded in an html page. To embed it in a wikipage they would need to from some new code. --MarkTalk 11:46, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Ah yes...hhhmmm...DragonFire1024 11:47, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
on wikia (wikicities) wikis you can embed youtube videos. You can not do that in wikimedia wikis (Flash is unfree or something). The java player is free (I belive) but you can't embed it (I think) because no one has worked on making it embedable (again I think that's the reason, I do not know). We should probably ask someone what the chances of that becoming embeddable are, as it'd be a great help I think. So for know its only links to the image page, a direct lnk (media:) or something like commons:template:video. Bawolff 17:38, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Note from a technical point of view, we could embed it with js, but thats a really bad idea for a number of reasons. Bawolff 17:39, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Wikinews Video 2.0 Commercial/Promo on YouTube and Commons!![edit]

Let the publicity start. I created this after I would say 3 hours maybe 5...but I screwed it up. Zachary managed to fix my mess and recover it. Here is the result in What I think is Pretty Damn good: Wikinews intro. Here is the downloadable version on Commons.

All the images are STILL images and were taken from commons and the city names were placed on them. This is one promo that shows a variety of locations where there are Wikinews Sites. DragonFire1024 09:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

wikiversity[edit]

I wonder if coordination with wikiversity (v:Filmmaking) would be mutually beneficial. Bawolff 19:06, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

I would think so :) DragonFire1024 19:53, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Designs[edit]

I have updated the main Wikinews Video page to include my designs for the opener and news graphics. I hope you like them. A flash video has also been compiled, thanks to Symode09, using my designs. I have also updated the logo to resemble the Wikinews: Print Edition logo. Stickeylabel 03:57, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Third Promo video released[edit]

I have created and made the third promotional video for Wikinews Video.
Watch: Wikinews Promo Video 3
Download from Commons: Download Video 3 DragonFire1024 04:54, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment this trailer has nothing from North America, South America, Middle East, mainland Asia or Africa. Lots of Europe plus Japan, Australia and New Zealand. --SVTCobra 19:37, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Sort of like wikinews coverage Smile.png. (lots of New Zealand, and Australia, and didly squat of anything else). Bawolff
Again most of the countries represent languages spoken on Wikinews sites...or Wikinews sites in general. It was not meant as a POV...and I am actually just a little upset that it is being accused of being that way. DragonFire1024 01:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry. Not trying to hurt feelings. But if you are going for wiki-languages shouldn't Toronto and/or New York be in there. We are both from New York (state) and NYC is the biggest city in the biggest country of the English speaking world, which is the #1 wiki-language. --SVTCobra 23:40, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
NY was in the first promotional video. Sorry, I did forget Canada :) DragonFire1024 02:17, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

New Image[edit]

I have uploaded Image:Earth.gif which is just an example of what the end of the opening credits/theme will look like just before we start reporting or whatever. The colors are off on the lettering because a gif can only do 256 colors. A logo of a sort will be added later. DragonFire1024 08:01, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, the lettering does look kind of weird, but otherwise its good. Acording to the wikipedia article on gif images there is a way arround the 256 colour issue, but It doesn't look very easy to do, or even possible with animation [unsure]. You should probably have this image under the gfdl, and link to Image:Rotating earth (large).gif (assuming this is based on that) to comply with the gfdl. Bawolff 17:25, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Audio[edit]

Right was going to get round to doing some new music mixs for this but i need links or copies of the tracks that are currently being used (ie on the newest tracks) and any for future because im loosing track of what each promo video is using. So if the people who have the tracks could list them here then i would appriciate it. Thanks --MarkTalk 10:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I personally dislike the modern rock/bass theme music that is current in the promos. I personally would like to see traditional theme music, similar to SKY News or BBC News, that portrays credibility and balance. However in response to your question, I am not sure who has the tracks. Stickeylabel 10:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Here is the link of the music we can use: [4]. Any of those tracks are at our disposal to do with whatever we please...I also have 2 audio files of an opening theme song and the closing theme...if you e-mail me (mail is on userpage) I will reply with the files. The videos are just promos and are in no way reflecting ACTUAL theme music...I believe that the opening theme music that was on one of the Windows Live videos is at the bottom of the link. DragonFire1024 10:48, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
We can also use audio here. DragonFire1024 19:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I personally would like to have a theme along the lines of a teletype printer type sound or something like the Eyewitness News theme (i.e. the tar sequence from Cool Hand Luke). Plus, it would be easier to create and sounds professional since it's a trademark noise of news programming. --TUFKAAP 21:21, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

How do we make it? And where do we get the music...I agree we need a theme song...brianmc has already got a few put together here. DragonFire1024 05:24, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Behold The Wikinews Player![edit]

Notice how fast it loads (for a sluggish video), if you hover over the video, the controlls show up (you may have to click on it once to activate the video)

The video is off an australian comedy show... they poke a bit of fun at the americans... it is pretty funny

--Symode09 16:41, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

LINKY? Bawolff 17:25, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Oops here. :) DragonFire1024 17:33, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry! Thanks Dragonfire :P --Symode09 01:23, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
The player looks excellent, and believe me I have LOLLED on that video!!!--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 15:10, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Is that video public domain? or a copy-vio? (I know you didn't put on a wiki-domain, but you did put wikinews all over it.) --SVTCobra 20:02, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Well its a (semi)private test, so it probably doesn't matter that much (if you want to get technical, the wikinews logo over therer is a breach of the wmf's copyright). Bawolff 20:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
For all the fretting the foundation is doing about image copyrights, I don't think that "semi-private" is rationale for an WN:EDP. --SVTCobra 20:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
For the java player, we should try to convince someone to apply the following css, to give it a similiar look of the player presented here:
body {background: url(http://members.iinet.com.au/~symode09/wikinewsbg.JPG) no-repeat;padding-left:170px;padding-top:140px}

Bawolff 20:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

all this yapping is getting me down[edit]

what is Yap? why does its talk page redirect to bad monkey? and why does this yap need a flag in addition to the flag on the WN video page? and a flag on the WC discussion about it? and a flagged poll over a player on yet another page? –Doldrums(talk) 17:43, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

also, how about publicizing this widely after we make a pilot? –Doldrums(talk) 17:50, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
So, how do we make major decisions? Publicity will obiously come with polls etc. If you haven't realised, this project deos involve a bit of humor... you usually don't inlist into a project, you don't get into a time machine when you want to find out what is happening in the future, with our gallery - the wow starts now is making a bit of fun of a major o/s's slogan. If you haven't come accross the word yap, look it up here and for the monkey, I'm sure you can work out, it is not too serious. Instead of complaining about what youdon'l like help tofix and improve things--Symode09 01:23, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Offering Help[edit]

If I could assist in anyway with this project I would really like to. Get back to me if you have any ideas. Thanks Ycanneh 21:25, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

You might want to join the Wikinews-l mailing list (see above), and subscribe to our enlistment list here.  Thunderhead  ►  21:27, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Stories[edit]

The graphics are ready to be put together, what we need to do now, is begin writing the story and, getting journalists. Let's try to look at one story in much depth. Can we have some suddgestions for who could be a journo/newsreader (even family and friends, if you tell them what to say) and, what shory should we cover. --Symode09 08:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Upcoming French elections?--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 15:12, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I think we need something a bit more worldwide (and hopefully able to commect to people's emotions) —Symode09 11:17, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Well we could definintly use the French election as an event. We might also be able to cover the six-party talks with North Korea whenever they resume.  Thunderhead  ►  19:54, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Well given the school shooting in WV, I think that we might want to do an in depth on that...it seems that WV Tech has bomb threats and at least one other shooting in the past DragonFire1024 02:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Credits[edit]

I am going to need the full names (first and last) of the people that put physical contributions into Wikinews Video and those names of the people who will eventually be the anchor/news reader. Please provide them here or on my talk page. If you do not want your full name on Wikinews or any other Wiki, please e-mail me with your full name...(my e-mail is on my userpage in the blue accredited box at the top.) DragonFire1024 03:56, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

How about people that wanna do the PR?  Thunderhead  ►  00:19, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Well they can also do that if they like :) DragonFire1024 02:15, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
what do you need real names for? surely not on-screen credits. usernames serve equally well there. Wikimedia users should not have to reveal their identity to anyone in order to contribute. pls do not ask for identities without making that very clear. make every effort to see whether identities are essential for whatever you're working on. –Doldrums(talk) 04:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)