Talk:Bernie Sanders ends 2020 US presidential bid

Notes

• The quote "the path toward victory is virtually impossible" is available in both cited sources --DannyS712 (talk) 20:26, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
• The sentence "For a candidate to win..." added in Special:Diff/4557952 comes from Arizona, Florida, Illinois hold 2020 US presidential primaries; Ohio postpones, as does the statement that Trump became the Republican party's presumptive nominee in March
• The last paragraph regarding 2016 comes from On the campaign trail in the USA, July 2016. That article notes that Sanders ran, that Clinton received the nomination, and that Clinton was the former Secretary of State. It does not note that she used to be the US Senator from New York, but I believe that it can be considered common knowledge. That being said, if the reviewer is uncomfortable with assuming it is common knowledge, Hillary Clinton forms presidential exploratory committee notes that Clinton was at the time the Senator from New York

--DannyS712 (talk) 20:25, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

it is not common knowledge for all the reviewers.
106.217.46.80 (talk) 20:27, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Which is why I provided a source here --DannyS712 (talk) 20:35, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Put the source where the article is.
•–• 20:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Headline

When you create an article, think about readers who are not from your country.
106.217.46.80 (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Renamed --DannyS712 (talk) 20:35, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Review of revision 4557967 [Not ready]

Revision 4557967 of this article has been reviewed by Acagastya (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 20:43, 9 April 2020 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Verifiability: Not ready: NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: Information about Clinton being the senator needs to cite a source here below the article. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Revision 4557967 of this article has been reviewed by Acagastya (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 20:43, 9 April 2020 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Verifiability: Not ready: NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: Information about Clinton being the senator needs to cite a source here below the article. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

I mean, the four words could have just been removed, or the source listed here used (I recall Pi zero commenting at one point that if the author provides the source on the talk page, the reviewer copying it to the article doesn't count as the reviewer adding the source themselves) but done --DannyS712 (talk) 21:00, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

If the article is not under review; and the author has not previously mentioned they would not be able to edit; in those cases, the author has to provide the sources. We go for removing pieces of information as the last resort when we can't afford removing articles from review; author fixing; and then resubmitting the article. If one is to remove information at the first hint of trouble, then the information is not really relevant here.
•–• 21:09, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I provided the source (see above) but its water under the bridge at this point, lets move on --DannyS712 (talk) 21:20, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

It is a thing to remember in future: if you can't edit wiki for considerable amount of time, you can drop the source in a talk page, and ask reviewer to add it, stating you would not be able to edit now. If the article is not under the review, add the source. Don't assume it is a common knowledge.
•–• 21:30, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I didn't assume it was common knowledge; please don't implied that I did --DannyS712 (talk) 21:59, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

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It is one monolithic piece of advise, which should not be broken down in pieces. If you are on a bus and you can't edit on your phone, put the source link on talk stating your reason. Else don't assume it is common knowledge unless it is marked under review and you have confirmed with the reviewer. If you can edit, and it is not under review: add it yourself.
•–• 22:11, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

If the advice includes an assumption about me, it may run afoul of Wikinews:Never assume. As far as I can tell, the advice works fine saying "one should not assume it is common knowledge" rather than addressing me in the imperative, so again, please do not imply that I assumed it was common knowledge. I made no such assumption --DannyS712 (talk) 22:53, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

I told you it is an advise not to be broken since it is monolithic. Yet you choose to break it into pieces. That is an advice to all authors for all the time. Don't assume it is common knowledge. "If the reviewer who is reviewing has said, then it is all right. Else, put it in the article all the time." Also, have a look at your own comment: "but I believe that it can be considered common knowledge".
•–• 23:07, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

"I believe that it can be considered common knowledge" is not the same as "I believe that it is common knowledge". I can say "I believe that Trump can be considered a good president" and "I believe that Trump can be considered a bad president" because they both can be considered, not because I believe both. If the advice is for all authors for all time, I suggest phrasing it in a way that does not imply it is directed at me. If it cannot be phrased in such a way, and if "it is an advise not to be broken since it is monolithic", then the entirety of the "monolithic" advice should not be given, per Wikinews:Never assume. --DannyS712 (talk) 23:12, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

When I clearly stated it is for all the authors for all the time: don't submit less than incomplete articles. Some leniency is shown for new authors or when the author is really afk. But if that is not the case, add all the sources. Don't roll with the assumption the reviewer would know. Consider this, your reviewer could be somewhere from UTC+0100 or UTC+1000 or UTC+0500. Are they going to search for that information? If so, you must provide that information on the main page. New sources on talk pages should be listed only when the author is really not in a condition to add it promptly.

If you feel it was directed towards you...Well, didn't I state it was for all the authors, and you are a part of that group?
•–• 23:25, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Easy, folks (both). Review involves criticism by its very nature, and working out how best to express the criticism is a separately extraordinarily difficult task. In a smooth writer/reviewer collaboration, both sides are confident that both are working toward the same goals, and neither has to devote extra time to worrying about whether their remarks will be misconstrued. Over many years I have, gently, tried different approaches and sought to develop habits that would cause my comments to be well-taken, but (a) that's been an exercise over years, (b) I'm not sure I've actually done better despite all my striving, and (c) I repeatedly get myself in trouble by being too soft. --Pi zero (talk) 23:23, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Is all this about whether or not a source was on the list on the article, versus mentioned in supplementary notes here? If so, this is perhaps an illustration of how I still haven't found the right formula for how best to handle these things. I mean, I have sometimes been willing to take a source mentioned in talk-page notes and promote it to listing on the article. I don't mind sometimes having to do that; if it's less work for all involved, why not... but then, I'll have self-doubts: is the reporter going to come to rely on reviewers doing that? Am I creating more review labor for myself, going forward; or, worse, creating more labor for some other hapless reviewer; or, even worse than that, setting up a possible source of friction in some future interaction between the reporter and some other reviewer? There's no set formula for how to do all this, either, and creating such a formula seems likely to make everyone's tasks harder by creating more rules to keep track of. All of which is implied when I, as a reviewer, try to decide whether I should be willing to shift a source from the talk page to the article Sources list. --Pi zero (talk) 23:40, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Review of revision 4557985 [Not ready]

Revision 4557985 of this article has been reviewed by Acagastya (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 21:13, 9 April 2020 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Verifiability: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not ready: Comments by reviewer: I find it under minimal length, as the third para is just a single sentence. I have a possible fix in my mind, but that would potentially disqualify me from publishing it. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Revision 4557985 of this article has been reviewed by Acagastya (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 21:13, 9 April 2020 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Verifiability: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not ready: Comments by reviewer: I find it under minimal length, as the third para is just a single sentence. I have a possible fix in my mind, but that would potentially disqualify me from publishing it. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

WN:PYRAMID calls for paragraphs of "only one or two sentences (three if you use very short sentences)" (bold in original) and says to "Use brief paragraphs — between 30 and 80 words is considered acceptable in newspaper writing" - the third paragraph was one sentence, as called for, and 32 words. Anyway, I expanded it a bit, so its no longer important --DannyS712 (talk) 21:23, 9 April 2020 (UTC)

Unrelated to the review. but gosh. I seem to have liked bernie for nearly seven years now. This is sad. :-(

Related to review: a photo of bernie and biden would be nice to have. Gryllida (talk) 02:54, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

@Gryllida: Done --DannyS712 (talk) 03:25, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Lightly

There was a sentence about not taking the decision lightly. That sentence showed up on the auto-assisted prelim check for similarities to source; the whole sentence occurred as a word-sequence in the CNN source. In the CNN source as it was when I accessed it, the part of it that we had in double-quotes wasn't quoted at all. So, however it happened, major problem. However, it seemed to me the whole sentence could simply be excised with no loss to our paragraph or article, since the following clause provides evidence to the same effect. --Pi zero (talk) 17:47, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I didn't see it either, not sure where Acagastya got it from - thanks for removing it --DannyS712 (talk) 21:44, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Um, going through the source I had cited might be a good place to start where I got it from, DannyS712. Pi zero, it is around 15:40 in the video.
•–• 22:08, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

I did look at the source you provided, but I must have missed it; please don't imply that I did not (just saying "Its in the source I cited around 15:40" would have been enough) --DannyS712 (talk) 00:28, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

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I never said you didn't.
•–• 00:31, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

True. However, stating "going through the source I had cited might be a good place to start" implied that I hadn't (which is why I asked you not to "imply that I did not", rather than "say that I did not") --DannyS712 (talk) 01:39, 11 April 2020 (UTC)

Suspended

It's usual that these campaigns get technically suspended rather than ended as such, and Bernie did technically suspend rather than end. I wondered about that, but haven't had a change to it, yet. --Pi zero (talk) 17:52, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Okay, he did use the word "end". And there's no easy way to work in the "suspend" thing. Good enough. --Pi zero (talk) 23:37, 10 April 2020 (UTC)

Review of revision 4558194 [Passed]

Revision 4558194 of this article has been reviewed by Pi zero (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 23:47, 10 April 2020 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: None added. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.

Revision 4558194 of this article has been reviewed by Pi zero (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 23:47, 10 April 2020 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: None added. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.