User talk:Towsonu2003/Arch2

Kurdish Linux launched in Turkey

Great new story. Can you find a freely licensed screenshot of the Kurdish version? I posted an English one, which is far from ideal. Are there any more sources for the story (sorry I cannot read Kurdish)? What day did the reception take place? --InfantGorilla 11:21, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

thanks :) Unfortunately, I couldn't find any other news agency covering this (except one, where the text was the same as the one from ntvmsnbc)... so I do not know more than I reported here :) as per the screenshot, I posted to a Kurdish forum asking for help, maybe they can upload a screenshot. Towsonu2003 18:57, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Reminder: please source your images (Image:Ubuntu-ku.jpg). Bawolff ☺☻ 00:30, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, the source was already in the discussion page if that image. Towsonu2003 04:04, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, In future could you maybe put the source in the main image page(or both), because in general I don't look at the talk pages of images

Unpublishing and Vandalism

To be fair, Towsonu2003, it's not vandalism to unpublish an article. While he should indeed state a reason, unpublishing an article should imply that more work may be needed to be done on it. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 23:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

There are just so many ways to vandalize while hiding the motivation... so I'm a little paranoid when this happens (in any news story)... I truly value constructive criticism though, so I would really appreciate any comments about the "unpublish". Comments about actions makes it easy to fix problems, while unpublishing an article without providing any constructive comments usually ends up in a forgotten article. Towsonu2003 00:01, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I would be happy to add comments to the talk page, but unpublishing that article was not vandalisim. Thunderhead(talk)^{(Check out my RFA test}) 03:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

copyvio

First off, we really appreciate your contribution.

But sometimes users submit an article from somewhere else, not realizing that Wikinews cannot keep copy-and-paste versions of articles which are published elsewhere under a restrictive copyright. An article created in this way is a copyright violation, and Wikinews policy is to erase these even if they are excellent article ideas.

Another problem which sometimes comes up is press releases. Press releases are sometimes excellent sources, but they do not qualify as unbiased news articles so they can't be published as they are. Two key things to remember about press releases is that they're usually written to represent the viewpoint of an involved party (Thus likely running foul of our Neutral Point of View policy). And second, they are generally covered by copyright which can conflict with our open editing approach.

A better way to get an article on an exciting subject published here is to write an original article following the guidelines described in writing an article, or to write a brief explanation of the subject and include the url address of articles or websites to use as sources.

Thanks again! — Doldrums(talk) 09:20, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Pointless crusade. Marking back to development is the most common practice. Mistakes, irregularity in the article formatting, anything else all justify it as published articles are not supposed to be changed after a little while. Its function is not to censure but to be notice of errors in the article and allow time for refinement.

Thanks Doldrums for your comments. The above unsigned statement isn't mine. However I think it is constructive and helpful to indicate what's going on on the article's discussion page when you unpublish that article. (this is not directly relate to copyvio issue, but to the above statement's implication (that you unpublish an article and that's it) Towsonu2003 19:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Turkey is not New Zealand

I am just writing so you know that Turkey is not the island's of New Zealand referring to the image you made here: . --Nzgabriel | Talk 07:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

lol hahahaha... ok, now I have to figure out how to fix that ehuehehehe lol -thanks for letting me know, I didn't look at it that closely... Towsonu2003 09:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Fixing now, thanks again :) Towsonu2003 09:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

And fixed :) Towsonu2003 09:44, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Just some advice

I've been observing that you have been making comments that would, well, get the people you're addressing your comments to upset and react negatively. I'm particularly referring to [1], as well as referring to changes in the headlines as "pov edits" and unpublishing articles as "vandalism." For your sake, I would like to see that you consider that the people make these edits in good faith -- the community will be more likely to accept you this way. ★MESSEDROCKER★ 01:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

you're right, I've been a little too irritating. Sorry Towsonu2003 01:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry -- you've only been around four days, and you seem to recognize it, which is very good. I hope that you continue to work; Turkey has little coverage! ★MESSEDROCKER★ 01:12, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the constructive comments :) Although it's not an excuse, I'm experiencing the "I'm quitting smoking" stage of life... The Turkish news don't help ;) Towsonu2003 01:14, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hillary Clinton Comment

The picture is her official senate picture found on Wikimedia Commons. If you have a problem, find a better picture but I beleive that the picture found is satisfactory Momodamonkey 18:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Image replacement

Hi, I noticed that you changed my image located here: Image:Apple_iTunes_store_opening_Firefox.png to one using Firefox (and a different browser?). I just wanted to tell you that I do use Firefox but I have it cluttered with add ons and extra buttons that I thought using a clean IE would be better :) --Nzgabriel | Talk 00:34, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I use a cluttered Firefox myself :) I used the command firefox -safe-mode to launch it without the add-ons and stuff, turned off "bookmark toolbar" from view>toolbars>booksmark toolbar, and then took the screenshot. After that I just restarted firefox as I usually do. hope this helps :) Oh, by the way, just to make sure there is no misundrstanding, I uploaded a new image Image:Apple_iTunes_store_opening_Firefox.png (yours was Image:Apple_iTunes_store_opening.png -it still is there) and changed the image in the iTunes news item you've got -My image looks a bit weird because it's taken in Linux (instead of Windows) using a rather simplistic desktop theme :) Towsonu2003 00:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. --Nzgabriel | Talk 01:22, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

By the way, Technically you should crop out the browser your using. Bawolff ☺☻ 06:44, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

It's always nice to spread word on technologies that support the kind of society we would like to see around ;) Towsonu2003 06:53, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Flash is evil (as in annoys the crap out of me) so I can't see that (:. But firefox skin is still really really trademarked. Bawolff ☺☻ 07:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I don't like flash myself. But you've gotta see that thing if you didn't yet. I really like how it present the free society. Here's links to more formats including mp3 audio and ppt (yes I know, I don't like MS + I don't have it) files: link Towsonu2003 07:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I'll lok at it soon. (Can't right now, I'm just here on lynx for about ten seconds to see if I have any new messages). Happy editing. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:36, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

P.S. I deleted image:Verizon Logo.svg.png as it was an unused duplicate. Bawolff ☺☻ 07:08, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, I tried deleting but couldn't find a way Towsonu2003 07:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

editing old articles

I noticed you added new content to the article, Kurdish operating system under investigation by Turkish attorney general, which is more than 24 hours old. Thanks for taking an active role in improving the content on this site. People like you who take an active role make Wikinews better for all of us — readers and writers alike.

One thing to note, though, is that Wikinews articles are not works in progress. Articles are considered historical documents reflecting the knowledge and understanding of the event at the time of publishing. Once published for more than a day or so, they should not be continually updated or modified, except to fix minor style issues (eg. spelling mistakes).

To report on new developments in ongoing story, you can create a new article instead of just adding content to an already published, out of date article. That way your work will be seen by more people since readers tend not to revisit old news articles looking for updates.

If a published article contains a factual error, please bring it to our attention at WN:ALERT, so that a {{Correction}} notice can be added to the article, which is otherwise left unchanged.

Again, thanks for helping improve this site..  — Doldrums(talk) 10:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

move vandal

no probs. is what we're here for :)  — Doldrums(talk) 07:46, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas, Towsonu2003/Arch2! I have really enjoyed working with you this year, and I am honestly looking forward to another year just like it. Wikinews is a great community, and I am really excited to be a part of it. Again, Merry Christmas! Thunderhead

Merry Christmas!

File:Santa arrest.JPG HO HO HO! These people got no presents from me this year.

FellowWikiNews is whishing thou a Merry very pegan Christmas , Seasons Greetings, Happy Holidays, Happy Hanukkah, or whatever thou calls it, and realised they had purposefully forgotten about thou. This user is completely thoughtless, doesn't care about Season's Greetings, and therefore DEMANDS you have yourself a Merry Christmas... NOW! Failure to comply will result in going to jail with Santa. (Note: Santa is Satan spelt backwards)! Christmas Story (Children Friendly): So kids, is Santa Democrat or Republican??! Often depicted as an obese man wearing a tasteless red, ermine trimmed suit, Santa Claus is a self-employed Caucasian male who's been married to the same woman for several centuries. It appears likely that he is a churchgoer, insofar as he is a Catholic saint and a former bishop. It has to be assumed here that Claus was released from his vows, or else he would not have been married. Frequent arguments have erupted over the political affiliation of Claus. Ten years ago, Dick Cheney inadvertently dealt a savage blow to the morale of the Republican Party when he misidentified the political affiliation of Santa Claus in his best-selling book, Parliament of Whores. "Santa Claus," he said, "is a Democrat." However it is perfectly obvious from his demographic profile alone that Santa is in fact a Republican. This assessment is often rebutted by Democrats with Anne-McCaffery counter-analysis: Santa Claus has no children. High-achieving professionals without children trend Democratic. While the Clausian canon does not specifically address the issue of Santa's children, numerous extra-canonical sources suggest that Claus did, in fact, reproduce. Numerous Christmas TV movie specials alone support this point. Santa is renowned for an aggressive adherence to a binary naughty/nice list, which suggests an impatience for nuanced moral positions that betrays his Republican preferences. Santa's mere willingness to define individuals along a naughty/nice axis demonstrates his indifference to the philosophical stance of, say, The New York Times. And note that no canonical or extra-canonical Clausian text indicates that Santa ever attended college or, God forbid, graduate school. THE END!!! FellowWikiNews approves of this story.

"vandalism"

Towsonu, u seem to have peculiar ideas[2] about what vandalism is. pls check what templates are and what they're used for carefully before concluding that using them is inappropriate. and remember to Assume good faith. accusations of vandalism are serious and shld not be made lightly and without merit.  — Doldrums(talk) 07:13, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

misunderstanding, will answer at your talk page Towsonu2003 07:21, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

taking a closer look, turns out u were right about the {{tl}} template being used for vandalism. the template has since then been fixed. incidentally, note that to fix a vandalised template, it is better to fix the template itself rather thn remove the template from pages where it is used. keep in mind that some templates are used in hundreds, if not thousands of pages. so apologies for doubting ur actions, i see they were well-meant. best,  — Doldrums(talk) 07:29, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

well, I didn't know the problem was the template lol I thought it was those two letters. Towsonu2003 07:31, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Turkish homeless man image

appears to be a copyvio. a photo published by another news source is typically copyrighted and we cannot use it on a fair-use basis either. see Wikinews:Image use policy. so i've commented out the image in the article.  — Doldrums(talk) 06:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

sorry about that. thanks :) Towsonu2003 06:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Linking to Wikinews instead of Wikipedia

I linked to Category:Microsoft as I consider it an expansion of WN:SG#Locations.2C_geography. It's done frequently in articles around here, so I hope you restore it.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 22:08, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I see you already restored :) -thanks for the link though, I was unaware of that Towsonu2003 21:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Image

The Turkey logo moved to Commons.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 21:43, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes I think so, it explains that it's a copyrighted logo...--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 21:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

For a job well done!

I, Steven Fruitsmaak, award this medal to Towsonu2003 for stories on Turkey. I'd like to see more of your work!

:-D thanks! Towsonu2003 22:15, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

The Goings-on Selection

Welcome to the first edition of this fortnightly Community Newsletter! If you have comments, please voice them. If you no longer wish to receive this newsletter, you can unsubscribe. If you have news for the next edition, please submit it here.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 00:30, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikinews community The Arbcom elections are ongoing. Please vote! Commentary pages have been removed again to improve the system, which met with little opposition so far. Archiving is behind since November! Brian McNeil wants some help, so I declare it the official Admin Backlog Collaboration to set this right! Get out your AWB and start archiving!--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 20:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC) Update on RSS feed circulation: readership jumped from 5,500 to 21,000 on December 12 2006, and then increased again to 36,000 on December 20. Currently just over 30,000 readers access the RSS feed each day. Get writing, people are reading! Dan100 (Talk) 14:59, 5 January 2007 (UTC) Wikiversity's Journalism School is looking for contributers and instructors. stats are back. Wikinews seems to be more or less steadily increasing. However, the number of newbies is falling slightly. Current RfAs: None (Munchkinguy has withdrawn his RfA). Wikipedia news - Wikimedia news edit this

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I am strongly condemning you

You started the page of "Turkish-Armenian journalist killed in Turkey" with this note: "Stupid Turkish fascists..."

Still we do not know that the killer is Turkish nor fascist.

In the page there are lots of unsupported arguments, which do not appear in the references, such as "fascist obsession", never-spelled slogan of "The assassins will pay" etc.

You are canalizing the readers that Turkish people and Republic of Turkey are killers and fascists. In Taksim, Istanbul, more than 10,000 people get together and protested the violence againist Hrant Dink, which i was one of the protesters.

I am strongly condemning you.

85.96.156.184 20:09, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I added the reference to the source for that quote inside the article now... As a Turkish person, I closely know what fascists thought about anyone who openly defended the position that the Armenian genocide occurred. As per your reference to "fascist obsession", it is meant to explain what Sera Dink tried to say with her quote of "is their blood purer now?". My aim there is very clear: the American reader is not familiar with fascist jargon... Towsonu2003 23:51, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Foreign Sources

Foreign Sources are 90% generally not considered "sources" on the English Wikinews unless someone, IMO preferably an admin. or a user who I trust, CAN read the source a.k.a. bilingual (sp). I am not against the use of foreign sources, but articles should not be published with one source let alone with one foreign source...If I cannot read the source's language, how do I know its the right source? DragonFire1024 20:13, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I already gave you (in your talk page) where to look for this issue. I don't care what languages you know. If you want news from non-english-speaking nations in here, you have to let people add them. Towsonu2003 23:34, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

There is no need for an attitude. I am stating rules on an english wikinews. Caring is not the issue. If I or anyone else who does not speak a foreign language, then they are NOT usually considered a proper sources for the english wikinews. DragonFire1024 19:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Somehow you manage to reply to me without reading the link I provided (which is very brief) and without bringing anything new to the table. Instead of bolding all occurances of "english", please read the link I provided. I would like to see the link to the Wikinews rule that clearly states "Foreign Sources are 90% generally not considered "sources" on the English Wikinews unless someone, IMO preferably an admin. or a user who I trust, CAN read the source", after which I will happily stop writing for Wikinews for good. Thanks. Towsonu2003 04:26, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I give up. You make accusations like I am telling you NOT to edit Wikinews. You have yet to even listen to what I have to say. I read the link and that makes no difference to me. The point is that unless the source is in english, then its not considered a source on the English wikinews. Since all you intend to do is be hostile, I will not be bothering you anymore. When you violate rules, I will lwt someone else deal with it. DragonFire1024 21:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

And what I am saying is, if that ("unless the source is in english, then its not considered a source on the English wikinews") is the case, I will cease writing for Wikinews because that is an absurd ethnocentrism that will deny me any possibility to write local news items not covered by English-speaking media... This issue won't be resolved between the two of us. I'll wait for other admins to chime in (please feel free to ask them to). Towsonu2003 00:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Really? My explanation is "ethnocentrism"? Lets put it this way. its like writing an english story and posting it on the Turkish Wikinews with only english sources. DragonFire1024 01:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

1. There is no Turkish wikinews 2. The reason I post Turkish (ie local) news here (a more or less global site) in english (a language that everybody understands) is to get a wider population to read them. Even if there were a Turkish wikinews site, its mission would inherently be different from this one... Towsonu2003 04:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Chill out. I'm sure you know that writers are a petulant bunch. No serious efforts, by en.Wikinews standards, to stop you from reporting have been forthcoming. Dragonfire has been pecking at uncertainties. Nothing wrong with that either. -Edbrown05 07:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The trouble is, it pokes at your credibilty. I've done stuff wrong without trying it, but I'm not of the impression you are misrepresenting anything. -Edbrown05 10:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Little bit of a heated discussion you guy's got going on there eh? There is no good answer to this problem. on one side

• No one can verify non-english sources
  • you're not perfect, and could make a mistake
  • we can trust you, but where do we draw the line, if a new user randomly comes in, starts saying random stuff based on a source in some unknown language, it'd be right to WN:DR in my opinion

on the other hand

• Part of our mission is to bring news to the world, when the world doesn't know about it
  • if its already in english, then its not exactly new to the english speaking world

The perfect solution would be having a machine translator (ala google translator). although they are not perfect, they're good enough to verify stuff. Bawolff ☺☻ 10:01, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

archiving

... done.  — Doldrums(talk) 19:12, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

thanks a lot Towsonu2003 19:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest that you, user Towsonu2003, raise your profile a little, get admin status, and join in on the archiving fun. It shouldn't just be articles that are prone to vandalism that get archived, and having carried out the task for some time I can say it ain't fun.

On the other hand, if you just want to keep doing intermittent contributions and not be heavily involved in the site, feel free to tell me to get lost with the admin suggestion. Its up to you how much time you spend on the site and admin can draw a lot of time. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 19:58, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion. I replied to your talk page. Towsonu2003 20:06, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Photo

That protest photo is amazing. What sort of camera/lens did you use? -- Zanimum 15:00, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, it's not mine. It's from Hrant Dink Towsonu2003 18:55, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

wikipedia images

Are not always okay here. We have different policies then they do (Specificly, If the image is fiar use and from a news organization or blog, it is not okay, and everything needs to have a url on it if its from an online source). Bawolff ☺☻ 01:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I know :) I think you're talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Dinkfuneral2.jpg - It's public domain as specified in its page... Towsonu2003 01:22, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

yes, And that one is okay, I just wanted to make sure you knew that as a general rule, that is not always the case. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

On a similiar note, Image:Masum.gif met speedy deletion criteria. Bawolff ☺☻ 02:10, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't know / remember what that is. Towsonu2003 04:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

It was an image from an online newspaper. Bawolff ☺☻ 04:32, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

looks like some cops, poking at some dead guy on a bench or something like that. Bawolff ☺☻ 04:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh yes, that should be the pic for the pic for Turkish homeless man burns to death after being neglected -it was a breaking news item, than I just forgot about the pic... Towsonu2003 06:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Well we're on the subject of images, just to confirm, you took Image:Linux sreenshot.jpg yourself? (and if so, what theme was it using (specioficly a free or not free one)? and are there any proprity programs runing)? Bawolff ☺☻ 00:10, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

You're strict, aren't you :) No, it came either from commons.wikimedi or wikipedia... don't remember... keep in mind that

This is a screen shot. It is believed that screen shots may be exhibited on Wikimedia projects under the fair use provision of United States copyright law. Use of the screen shot here does not imply endorsement of the software by the Wikimedia Foundation, nor does it imply endorsement of the Wikimedia Foundation by the software authors.

thanks Towsonu2003 00:36, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

okay, its okay either way, I'm just thinking eventual it might be able to go to commons. (Don't worry, I'll run out of images soon, then the image monster will go away :) ). Bawolff ☺☻ 00:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

okay found it (w:Image:Linux sreenshot.jpg) . thanks. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:42, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

wow good work :) I looked for it myself and couldn't find... Towsonu2003 00:50, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

lol. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:53, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Local only news

Note the correct category for local news is category:Local only (ussually acompined with something like template:specialPublish). However I disagree with Discriminatory job ad by Central Bank of Turkey asks for men only being considered local only. I think, especially at this stage in wikinews development, that it is intreasting enough for a global audience. Bawolff ☺☻ 06:50, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to go about this. I added this "local" tag to it because of the discussions on having single non-english sources... so I used that local tag to show that that news item was not subject to the single source non-english issue... I don't want it to be seen as "local only, don't read it!". Rather I wanted to convey the message of "this is local, I can't find english source"... Here's the discussion I have been dealing with about foreign sources. Towsonu2003 09:48, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Related News template

So its easier for you here is the template for related news articles: *{{wikinews|title=(Wikinews article title)|date=January 27, 2007}} DragonFire1024 21:23, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

ah, I was forgetting "title="... thanks:) Towsonu2003 00:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah. I hate typing in that template. Next time you should insert:

  mwCustomEditButtons[mwCustomEditButtons.length] = {
    "imageFile": "http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Btn_toolbar_enum.png",
    "speedTip": "Related news link",
    "tagOpen": ""[[",
    "tagClose": "|",
    "tagClose": "]]" — Wikinews, ",
    "sampleText": ""};

}

in Special:MyPage/monobook.js. After, refresh using alt-r on your keyboard :) —FellowWikiNews (W) (sign here!) 04:24, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Seems like it's not working, but thanks. I'll take a look into the use of that page later, seems fun and nice :) Towsonu2003 04:55, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Should be working. Click on an article and you will see at the top were all the colerful bottons are that you have a new feature. —FellowWikiNews (W) (sign here!) 04:58, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to add:

if (mwCustomEditButtons) {

It should be working fine now :) —FellowWikiNews (W) (sign here!) 05:05, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Didn't work, but I copied your whole thing and now I have many very nice buttons :) Thanks a lot for the help Towsonu2003 06:17, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

by the way, in case you're curious, the reason why it improbably didn't work originally, was because their was a whole bunch of extra quotes (") mixed in. Bawolff ☺☻ 06:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

MS patent article

have replied on the talk page.  — Doldrums(talk) 10:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The Groklaw source covers this patent in far more detail, it is worth reading and you'll not see much mention of the advertising subsidised PCs that ISPs and Telcos will be able to offer with this. The analysis there is quotable, and would probably make a far better basis than slashdot. I really don't like when that gets used as a source, its always second hand and you should go to the sources referenced in the slashdot article. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 10:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

dit, dit, dit, ditto... never get anything meaningful from being slashed, it's not a source. -Edbrown05 11:07, 11 February 2007 (UTC)