Talk:Hololive VTuber Watson Amelia holds last livestream

Foreign sources

Hi @El Rolo Ueeqee

If parts of foreign language sources were used for the article, could you please share a translation of the relevant passages?

Thank you! Gryllida (talk) 07:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@Gryllida. Oh, OK, thank you for telling me.

Can you please help me by telling me how you add them? Is there a template or a specific space in the article where you put them? Thank you. El Rolo Ueeqee (talk) 14:41, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Put that information here at the talk page. There is no template.

Include only your translation and link to source, and a note which paragraphs (e.g. paragraph 1 or paragraph 4) in original source.

We cannot include original source content on this page because of licence incompatibility.

Thank you. Gryllida (talk) 20:30, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

@Gryllida:

Translation of article titles by order in which they are listed (relevant paragraphs enlisted, not translated):

• "Hololive EN['s] 'Watson Amelia' to end broadcasting activities... but will not 'graduate'; will continue to be an affiliated talent"
  • Fourth and fifth paragraphs ("ワトソン・アメリアさんは [...] います。")
  • Seventh paragraph ("いわゆる「卒業」とは異なるよ [...] とです。")
• "Hololive EN['s] 'Watson Amelia' ends broadcasting activities without graduating; will remain affiliated with operations' company"
  • First paragraph ("VTuberグループ・ホロライブEnglishのワトソン・アメリア [...] にした。")
  • Third and fourth paragraphs ("ホロライブも [...] 発表。)
  • Fifth paragaph ("ワトソン・アメリアさんは2020年 [...] デビュー。")
  • Seventh and eighth paragraphs ("9月20日、ワトソン・アメリアさん [...] 伝えている。")
• "Hololive English, Ms. Watson Amelia's broadcasting activities to end on October 1, continues affiliation as a talent"
  • Second to fifth paragraph ("ワトソン・アメリアさんは，ホロライブ [...] 予定だ。")

I will disclose I speak very little Japanese, thus, I have heavily relied on machine translation (specifically DeepL). I am confident, however, that the content in this article is an accurate representation of what the original reports said, as the message English-speaking social media, and the subject's company itself have given has been echoed by the machine translation I used to write the article. El Rolo Ueeqee (talk) 22:02, 22 September 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thank you. Gryllida (talk) 01:47, 23 September 2024 (UTC)

Wording and NPOV

Hi @El Rolo Ueeqee

• Question Is this phrase "a talent" and "generation of talents" promotion or is it official term used in this industry? It reads a bit promotional which could cause issues with neutrality.
• Question Has an outsider (i.e., someone who is not Watson Amelia and who is not part of Hololive Production) commented on this event? If so, could you please include this into the article and ensure relevant sources are linked.
• Question Who said this? "She has been described as greatly contributing to the popularization of VTubing culture outside of Japan."
• Question Who says this definition? "Usually, in VTubing and Japanese entertainment, the term 'graduation' is used to refer to the act of a celebrity leaving a group or company". Is this your opinion? If not, who usually uses it, on what site or something? Attribution could help a lot.

Thank you and kind regards, -- Gryllida (talk) 05:15, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Gryllida

• Regarding your first question: In the VTubing world, the word "talent" is used to refer to people who work for an agency in general, and the word "generation" refers to a group of talents that debut simultaneously. Examples of usage of this term in third-party media include:
  • Polygon: «Japanese VTuber talent agency Nijisanji announced that it would terminate one of its talents: Selen Tatsuki.»
  • Anime Corner: «VTuber agency VShojo has debuted yet another talent, named Matara Kan.»
  • Anime News Network: «hololive Indonesia, a spinoff group aimed towards the Indonesian audience, launched its first and second generation of talents on April and December 2020 respectively»
  • Vice: «As Cover tries to figure out this new form of business, its talent gets treated like products that it can pull off of store shelves and replace in a few months.»
  • Anime Trending: «Japanese VTuber agency Neo-Porte‘s fifth generation of talents will make their debut on January 14.»
• Regarding your second question: All of the sources the article cites are from third parties.
• Regarding your third question: The statement you listed is sourced in this article, specifically on the following paragraph:
  • «デビュー以降も様々な活動を通じて多方面で活躍し、VTuber文化を海外に広めることに貢献してきました。»

Which DeepL translates to:

• «Since her debut, she [Watson] has been active in many fields through various activities and has contributed to spreading VTuber culture abroad.»

• Regarding your fourth question; before I reply to the question itself, I'd like to tell you that I removed the word "usually" from the article because I think it's redundant and potentially misleading, in the sense that it implies the term "graduation", in VTubing, is used with a meaning other than to refer to a talent's retirement from an agency, which is not the case.

Now, on the question itself: The term "graduation" is used in that way in the VTuber industy. This article by Polygon about the termination of Nijisanji talent Selen Tatsuki starts by discussing the terminology surrounding the end of a VTuber's career, defining 'graduation' as a "mutually agreed-upon ending of a contract between a VTuber agency and a VTuber" and 'termination' as the agency cutting ties with the talent.

In Watson's case specifically, this is neither a graduation nor a termination, as she will continue to be affiliated with Hololive as a talent, though one that won't be streaming anymore. El Rolo Ueeqee (talk) 21:16, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Hi El Rolo Ueeqee,

• todo (required) About 'talent' and 'generation' I think it would be clarify at beginning of the article.
• todo (optional) Also is there a Wikipedia article about either of these terms, if so, then it would be useful to add a wikilink.
• todo (optional) About third parties: did they comment? Some other talent commenting on this departure? Some company saying a word? This is optional to add probably, yet if they did, it would make the story more comprehensive.
• todo (required) About "She has been described as greatly contributing to the popularization of VTubing culture outside of Japan." from a single source, I'd suggest attributing to the source, e.g., "As Yahoo Japan reported, she allegedly contributed ..." (avoiding passive voice as per the style guide.).
• todo (optional) About graduation: I'd suggest adding "usually on good terms" to the description of it in the last paragraph.

Of the issues above, in my opinion the clarification of 'talent' and 'generation' is holding it from publication as it is confusing to audience not familiar with this sector; and lack of attribution is holding from publication due to issue with neutrality.

The main character of this news is not widely known, I've asked whether this is an issue with relevance here.

I hope you can assist, as myself doing the above changes, which are not a minor edit, would disqualify me from reviewing.

Thank you. Gryllida (talk) 01:55, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

@Gryllida I added most of the suggestions you had for the article. As of the term "talent", I decided to replace it altogether with synonyms (such as "member" or "VTuber"), and I clarified the meaning of the term "generation".

One thing I didn't add was the "graduation is usually on good terms" because it might imply this Watson retired on bad terms, as in, a reader that doesn't know about the situation might say "oh, graduations are usually on good terms but in this case it was done on bad terms", even though that's not explicitly said.

As for reactions from other people to the news, her generation's talents (Ninomae Ina'nis, Takanashi Kiara, Mori Calliope), as well as talents from other generations (Hakos Baelz, Koseki "Biboo" Bijou), and from outside Hololive (kson from VShojo, Pipkin Pippa from Phase Connect) have all commented on this situation.

As one last thing, I'd like to request to you to move this article from "Hololive talent Watson Amelia announces end to her streaming activities" to "Hololive member Watson Amelia announces end to her streaming activities". I can't do this myself as I'm not yet an autoconfirmed user. El Rolo Ueeqee (talk) 01:08, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. Not fresh currently and I suggested to refocus as noted below. Gryllida (talk) 07:14, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

@Gryllida I've re-focused the article to center on Watson's last livestream due on Monday. I'd request to also move the article to "Hololive member Watson Amelia holds last livestream on Monday". El Rolo Ueeqee (talk) 22:08, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Gryllida (talk) 23:47, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Done Gryllida (talk) 23:48, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Review of revision 4799663 [Not ready]

Revision 4799663 of this article has been reviewed by Gryllida (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 05:48, 28 September 2024 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Not ready: More than seven days after the date of event. Verifiability: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: More than seven days after September 20 have passed meaning the event is not news currently. The article can be refocused on the 'release of last stream' event which is upcoming in a few days. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Revision 4799663 of this article has been reviewed by Gryllida (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 05:48, 28 September 2024 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Not ready: More than seven days after the date of event. Verifiability: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: More than seven days after September 20 have passed meaning the event is not news currently. The article can be refocused on the 'release of last stream' event which is upcoming in a few days. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Sources

Hi @El Rolo Ueeqee 1. change "will be" to "did" 2. find two sources about the latest stream (has to be two sources about focal event) 3. date template at start of article is broken, please make a new page and copy paste the source code of date from there. pardon my brevity, typing from mobile device. thanks. Gryllida (talk) 09:50, 1 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gryllida I expanded the article to include what was featured in her last stream, adding two references ([1] [2]).

By the way, I'm not sure I understand the third point. You mean copy-pasting the article and posting it in other page or something else? El Rolo Ueeqee (talk) 00:21, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @El Rolo Ueeqee. I created the page (etherpad) it may help a reviewer as it includes Google Translations of sources. Gryllida (talk) 22:38, 3 October 2024 (UTC)

Hi @El Rolo Ueeqee are you around? Does Watson Amelia have a contact email?

Could we consider an interview? If so then what questions would you like to ask?

Possibly something like

• What made you interested in Vtubing. When and how did this happen
• Why did you decide to stop streams now?
• What are you planning to focus on in the future?
• Who are your favourite fans? Favourite vtubers?
• How do you see impact of machine learning on the industry?
• What countries is vtubing common in other than Japan?
• What was the favourite part of career so far?
• Who was your mentor?

Maybe some other questions. Please edit the questions and propose new questions and let me know how to contact. I can send from my reporter email to increase chances of reply.

Regards, Gryllida (talk) 11:36, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gryllida About this, Hololive has requested to "refrain from contacting talents regading this matter". I don't know if by "talents" they refer to all talents, including Watson, or if they refer to all talents aside from Watson, but I think we should take this ambiguous message into account before actually trying to get an interview.

With that out of the way, if we actually do end up deciding to have an interview, Hololive talents cannot be contacted directly; instead (as stated in the "About" section of Watson's channel), inquiries must be sent first to Cover Corp (Hololive's parent company) by contacting them either thru their official website or their Twitter. El Rolo Ueeqee (talk) 01:22, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

I have asked Cover for possibility of contact with Amelia Watson for a news report. Gryllida (talk) 04:41, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Sending an email with the media organization's name is not an overly difficult task, so we should immediately get started on this work. Kitabc12345 (talk) 08:58, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

i did it to Cover Gryllida (talk) 10:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

what to do with this

@BigKrow, @Acagastya what to do with this. I can go through it and check it is accurate. yet seems a bit promotional? @LivelyRatification, @JJLiu112 Thanks Gryllida (talk) 10:39, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Possible interview proposed above. Gryllida (talk) 11:37, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

I think the chances are small, and even if I send it, I may not receive a reply. But I will still send it to the company. Based on my experience, it is very difficult for this type of Asia or Japan Internet companies to be willing to respond to reporters, and I don't know if he will reply to fan letters since he has stated a deadline for fan letters.

Final Stream: Her last livestream will take place on September 30, after which her YouTube membership will remain available until October 31, 2024. Fans can send letters until November 29, 2024. 1 Kitabc12345 (talk) 08:57, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

@Gryllida, does seem promotional. BigKrow (talk) 13:25, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Newsworthiness

Is there any concern regarding its potential newsworthiness? In trying to answer that myself, I found a en.WP article was created for recently[3] and there was a discussion started there essentially asking the same question; is Watson notable? The en.WP page has gotten decent hits for en.WP.[4] —Michael.C.Wright (^Talk/_Published) 15:05, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

Wp publishes about notable people, that is who got awards of international significance and/or in depth coverage from independent source. I cannot be sure about Wikinews. This is verifiable and fresh to me. For now.

There is some documentation at WN:Relevance and WN:NOT. It says "Wikinews articles are not advertisements. [...] an exclusively one-sided article, either pro- or con- the subject of the article, is a form of advertisement." So even if an interview is successful, an article which says "This wonderful fabulous actor retired. He is best in the world. Buy his merchendise" is advertising. What if it is indeed a great actor and there are 30 major news outlets writing about this? They typically would not write bad things. So it would be all "pro-" article subject. I am seeing the documentation confusing. :-/

I don't see how this article is worse than, for example, DiCaprio finally wins Oscar for Best Actor.

I do recommend adding more of the "how" -- published last stream where; announced decision to discontinue streams via what platform; etc. @El Rolo Ueeqee

Regards, -- Gryllida (talk) 05:30, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

There is no bad news about Watson Amelia. The Wikipedia for Portuguese, Japanese, Chinese, English has an entry for Watson Amelia. If there is bad news, it should appear on Google. But Hololife itself has bad news.

Hololive has faced several controversies over the years, impacting both the agency and its talents. Here are some notable incidents:

Uruha Rushia's Contract Termination

Incident: In February 2022, Uruha Rushia was terminated from Hololive due to violations of her non-disclosure agreement (NDA). The company cited that she leaked sensitive information and caused reputational damage.

Outcome: Following her termination, Rushia's YouTube channel was made private, despite her being one of the highest-earning VTubers. She later returned to the VTuber scene under a new identity, Mikeneko, and has continued to create content independently. 1 The Wikipedia for Indonesian, Japanese, Chinese has an entry for Uruha Rushia.

Taiwan Controversy

Incident: In September 2020, Hololive talents Kiryu Coco and Akai Haato mentioned Taiwan during a stream. This sparked outrage from viewers in mainland China, leading to a backlash against Hololive.

Company Response: Cover Corporation issued a statement apologizing for the incident and suspended both talents for three weeks. The situation highlighted the delicate balance companies must maintain regarding political sensitivities in different regions.

Hololive China Incident

Background: The Hololive China branch faced significant challenges due to political tensions and harassment from nationalist groups after the Taiwan incident. Eventually, all six members of Hololive China retired in late 2020.

Impact: The situation underscored the difficulties faced by VTubers operating in politically sensitive environments and led to a reevaluation of how Hololive manages its international branches.

However, I feel that the above content seems to be off-topic under the news headline "Hololive member Watson Amelia holds last livestream on Monday". Kitabc12345 (talk) 08:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

can you add how - how was announced in september - how was last stream released Gryllida (talk) 10:52, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Her YouTube channel has 1.8 million subscribers, making her the fourth most popular English VTuber. She have earned approximately US$826,551 from Superchat donations and an estimated US$308,676 in annual ad revenue. The global VTuber market is rapidly expanding and expected to reach US$37.41 billion by 2030, growing at an annual rate of 35.6%. Kitabc12345 (talk) 13:53, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Review of revision 4800465 [Passed]

Revision 4800465 of this article has been reviewed by Gryllida (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 13:31, 5 October 2024 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: A bit too old. Publishing was hindered by relevance discussion. I checked with a few contributors and they say the article subject is very popular in Asia. Suggest adding note of Amelia Watson place in market to emphasize she is among the top english vtubers. The post publish edit will be reviewed separately. Authors did good job wikifying and structuring the article. For future, please write about events which occurred today, and include the context (in third+ patagraph) more clearly for international audience who have no clue of subject significance. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.

Revision 4800465 of this article has been reviewed by Gryllida (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 13:31, 5 October 2024 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: A bit too old. Publishing was hindered by relevance discussion. I checked with a few contributors and they say the article subject is very popular in Asia. Suggest adding note of Amelia Watson place in market to emphasize she is among the top english vtubers. The post publish edit will be reviewed separately. Authors did good job wikifying and structuring the article. For future, please write about events which occurred today, and include the context (in third+ patagraph) more clearly for international audience who have no clue of subject significance. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.

• Yup this is fine, thank for your work. Completing the work within a 7-day deadline is a very demanding task for the volunteer. Kitabc12345 (talk) 14:06, 5 October 2024 (UTC)